Alkalinity Range Madness

[GARRIGA]

Learning about Bolus relative to one full day morning dose and seeing how that doesn't negatively affect corals then why the need to test several times a day vs just before that morning dose and purely as a means of adjusting dosage or correction needed to bring the following day inline with consumption. Combine that with the range provided by many where it seems that 7-12 considered safe along with the fact NSW is below 7 and anecdotally it appears above 12 plausible assuming proper lighting and higher pH.

Are many seeking NASA level precision when a more relaxed approach might be better overall because it leads to more hands off and just let the system operate within ranges vs narrow edges that require unneeded equipment or attention?

My assumption. Corals grow slow therefore once dialed in. Is this value really going to change dramatically from day to day or is once a week sufficient and especially for new tanks which have little consumption yet I see those new to the hobby entrenched in getting the latest, obtaining the most precise kits and all to quick to walk that edge as to perhaps show they belong or thinking it actually matters vs sitting back and enjoying their work of art.

Caveat being that because I'm seeking less hands on that other parameters will less likely fall out of line therefore less tinkering best and especially for those new and old. Older I get less I want to get involved.

 

[taricha]

My assumption. Corals grow slow therefore once dialed in. Is this value really going to change dramatically from day to day or is once a week sufficient and especially for new tanks which have little consumption yet I see those new to the hobby entrenched in getting the latest, obtaining the most precise kits and all to quick to walk that edge as to perhaps show they belong or thinking it actually matters

I'll bite
Corals can be happy at many different stable alk levels. I think hobby experience over decades is decent evidence that stability is better than large swings.


So there's two ways to ensure stable alk.
1) Test frequently
or
2) have your inputs tuned and well known.

My sense is that successful reefers either have good data on their water alkalinity (consistent testing) or good data on their inputs (monitored automated systems like Ca reactors etc).

If you want to argue against stability being needed - that's ok, feel free to do that - but I would actually need to see strong evidence that corals are equally happy with large alk swings and small swings before I'd take that position as plausible.

 

[GARRIGA]

I'll bite
Corals can be happy at many different stable alk levels. I think hobby experience over decades is decent evidence that stability is better than large swings.


So there's two ways to ensure stable alk.
1) Test frequently
or
2) have your inputs tuned and well known.

My sense is that successful reefers either have good data on their water alkalinity (consistent testing) or good data on their inputs (monitored automated systems like Ca reactors etc).

If you want to argue against stability being needed - that's ok, feel free to do that - but I would actually need to see strong evidence that corals are equally happy with large alk swings and small swings before I'd take that position as plausible.

Not arguing against stability as that's what I most believe in after reducing stress but based on what I've learned from Bolus dosing it seems that if one can dose an entire day first thing and it doesn't upset the apple cart then does one really need the frequent testing and concern?

Bolus specifically to the concept all can be dosed once vs throughout the day and nothing else about it.

Randy confirmed dosing AFR once per day not having ill affects and that leads me to believe we stress over numbers being exact more than possibly needed and specially with alkalinity which has such a wide range of acceptance.

This was further enforced by a video I saw yesterday with Richard Ross and pH where he feels test kits aren't precise mostly because users can't be precise in execution which is something I've believe since examining why so many show disdain for API and concluded the user likely not doing it right along with BRS doing tests using same sample water and test kits and getting wild results from those participating.

If you can't trust the results beyond a plausible placebo then perhaps hands off best. Last one should consider is correcting that they tested wrong.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

IMO, the mechanisms that regulate uptake of alk from seawater are relatively slow processes to control since they likely require changing the number of transporters available.

In the ocean, alk doesn’t change and corals do not need to rapidly change these. In a reef tank, alk often changes.

 

[GARRIGA]

IMO, the mechanisms that regulate uptake of alk from seawater are relatively slow processes to control since they likely require changing the number of transporters available.

In the ocean, alk doesn’t change and corals do not need to rapidly change these. In a reef tank, alk often changes.

Therefore this reinforces the concept an entire days dosage can be done in one dose and frequent testing rather non-beneficial?

I ask because the only reason I'd have for buying an automated tester being I'm really supposed to be concerned about constantly changing numbers which I'm starting to have less confidence in each day. There's no way I'm manually testing four times a day and having a doser limited to one dose much safer in my opinion as there's a failure point where everything breaks. Me being overly cautious but that's just who I am.

 

[taricha]

I ask because the only reason I'd have for buying an automated tester being I'm really supposed to be concerned about constantly changing numbers which I'm starting to have less confidence in each day. There's no way I'm manually testing four times a day

I agree that measuring dKH more than once a day isn't necessary, if that is what you are arguing against.

An automated system (in theory) also performs the same trusted test the same way, which is really all that's needed for consistent results.
So there's a Rationale there for those who don't trust manual testing, even if you don't want to know what your alk is 4x per day.

 

[GARRIGA]

I agree that measuring dKH more than once a day isn't necessary, if that is what you are arguing against.

An automated system (in theory) also performs the same trusted test the same way, which is really all that's needed for consistent results.
So there's a Rationale there for those who don't trust manual testing, even if you don't want to know what your alk is 4x per day.

That's a consideration yet I fall back on the wide range of accepted values. I'm a bottle drop tester and so long as I don't go beyond 9 drops seems within range. Don't think there's concern if my results are 10 and I'm shooting for 9 yet reality is 8. Outside of overdosing bicarbonate which cloudy water being likely my first clue just don't see how day to day consumption changing once dialed in considering how slow corals grow.

Having said that, expect my controller to alert me when pH goes outside my perceived norm. PH being the only item I seek constant results because it's a tell tale of so much that could go wrong. Not chasing pH. Just as an indicator something might have gone wrong.

I'd mention ORP but even after 30 plus years I'm still clueless to exactly what those results mean and likely wouldn't understand what just happened.