Help mixing Tropic Marin All-For-Reef Powder

[linus.chan]

So shouldn't the bottle be more than 2/3 full then? Did you add 160g to 1L of water? Looks like not enough water in the photo? And was the water very hot? 100f isn't very hot.. that's barely warm to the touch. I use a hot plate and it feels warm but I can keep my hand on the container.

Some of what you are saying is either incomplete on what you did or just doesn't make sense.

To clarify i followed the instructions to a tee- I microwaved the water for about 2 minutes. It wasn't quite to boiling but it was hot. (My 100 degrees estimate may have been low- the point was that it was warmer than room temperature). I added the water first, then added the powder, first the Carbo Calcium then the Magnesium, and finally the two liquids. I shook the bottle vigorously and swirled it for more than 90 minutes and it STILL has the leftover powder from last night.

 

[Shirak]

the bottle is 2/3 full (can't see the whole thing in the picture)

So you are using the DIY recipe with the 4 parts.
750ml of water
140g carbo calcium
12g bio Mag
100ml of trace A
100ml of trace B

Are you sure you used carbo calcium? Someone else had a problem once with it not dissolving and was using Bio Calcium instead.

You could try weighing the contents of the jar and see what you have. It should be over 1kg

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

By my basic knowledge of chemistry, heating increases the rate of dissolving and makes a saturated solution unsaturated (more solute can be dissolved in the solvent).

As a general rule, higher temps may speed the dissolution itself, but in terms of the final amount that will dissolve, it can go up or down with an increase in temperature.

Calcium hydroxide (to make kalkwasser), for example, is more soluble at lower temperatures.

 

[Reef.]

By my basic knowledge of chemistry, heating increases the rate of dissolving and makes a saturated solution unsaturated (more solute can be dissolved in the solvent).

warm is not 100 degree

 

[A Young Reefer]

warm is not 100 degree

“Warm” is a pretty subjective term.
Most will tell you it’s anywhere between 90-110 degrees. some will tell you it’s 80-110. Others will tell you 70-100. I for example consider 100 warm.
The International Residential Code defines hot water as water having a temperature greater than 110 F, which technically means anything below that falls under the “warm” category.

 

[Hans-Werner]

added the water first, then added the powder, first the Carbo Calcium then the Magnesium, and finally the two liquids. I shook the bottle vigorously and swirled it for more than 90 minutes and it STILL has the leftover powder from last night.

So you are using the DIY recipe with the 4 parts.

This at least explains the color(s). The yellow or pale-brownish color of All-For-Reef is caused by iron, manganese and maybe iodine while the colors of K+ and A- Elements is achieved with a minute amount of a harmless dye. This masks the orange-brown color K+ Elements would have otherwise and A- Elements would be clear.

This is the reason why the color of DIY is different from ready-mixed All-For-Reef.

I have not seen other colors.

I still have no good explanation for the undissolved powder. Is the concentration too high? Have units been mixed-up, grams and ounces or liters and gallons?

If Bio-Calcium would have been used it should have been bubbling and foaming to a degree which is hard to overlook. It also would cause a dense cloudiness from precipitates.

 

[Reef.]

“Warm” is a pretty subjective term.
Most will tell you it’s anywhere between 90-110 degrees. some will tell you it’s 80-110. Others will tell you 70-100. I for example consider 100 warm.
The International Residential Code defines hot water as water having a temperature greater than 110 F, which technically means anything below that falls under the “warm” category.

Thought you meant 100c.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thought you meant 100c.

FWIW, calcium formate solubility changes very little between freezing and boiling.

 

[Digitalfirex]

Sorry this took me so long to respond. I only saw the post right now.

@nim6us you are right on in your assumption. When mixing the AFR Powder, you want to mix 160g (I think that is 6 level scoops) into RO/DI water to result in a full 1000 ml solution. We recommend starting with about 900 ml of RO/DI water (it makes it easier to dissolve the powder) and then add as much is needed. It is almost always about an additional 50 ml that is needed. That means that you can also start with 950 ml of RO/DI water, if you would like, and you will almost always end up right on the full 1000 ml solution.

It is also true, however as @Randy Holmes-Farley said, that it doesn't make very much difference. As you can see it is only a matter of about 50 ml one way or the other. This makes very little difference in the concentration of the final solution. That would be true even if you started with the full 1000 ml of RO/DI water, you would only end up with about 1050 ml of final solution.

But for us OCD types, the 900 ml and topping off after dissolving is the best way to go and bee 100% accurate.

So I've recently been told AFR can't be diluted... apparently AFR in the 1L:160g formula is antibacterial. Is there any Tropic Marine research that shows any adverse effects on a tank? Also, is there some sort of antibacterial component in AFR? Ie peroxide etc (I'm no expert, sorry)

 

[Breadbox]

I would certainly like to know that as well, 6 level scoop per 900ml is a crazy amount, I think I have trouble dissolving 3 scoops in 900ml without using a magnetic stirrer.

 

[Reef.]

So I've recently been told AFR can't be diluted... apparently AFR in the 1L:160g formula is antibacterial. Is there any Tropic Marine research that shows any adverse effects on a tank? Also, is there some sort of antibacterial component in AFR? Ie peroxide etc (I'm no expert, sorry)

Lou has previously said AFR can be diluted.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The potential concern is the metabolism of the solution as it waits to be dosed. the "adverse" effect is consumption of some of the trace elements, and conversion of formate to bicarbonate.

IMO, that concern is reduced in by mixing a completely new batch each time, not using the same container over and over without cleaning it between. But I do not now if it eliminates the concern.

 

[Digitalfirex]

Lou has previously said AFR can be diluted.

 

[Lou Ekus]

The concentration (supersaturation) of the AFR solution is what helps to prevent unwanted bacterial growth. Once it is diluted, this effect is diminished and the possibility for bacterial growth is increased. Hense, we recommend the AFR not be diluted.

I have to admit that at one point, quite some time ago, I was not aware of this fact, and I did, incorrectly, recommend that the AFR could be diluted in ATO water supply. That statement was in error! My apologies.

 

[Digitalfirex]

Honestly it doesn't make sense to me.

A) Regular rodi isn't antibacterial
B) salt mix otherwise isn't antibacterial while also having similar/same trace elements
C) why would dosing different amounts of AFR in a tank not potentially mess with the bacteria in the tank if it has an antibacterial component to it? Like if I dose 50ml in a 20g tank vs dosing 10ml in a 20g tank

 

[Reef.]

Honestly it doesn't make sense to me.

A) Regular rodi isn't antibacterial
B) salt mix otherwise isn't antibacterial while also having similar/same trace elements
C) why would dosing different amounts of AFR in a tank not potentially mess with the bacteria in the tank if it has an antibacterial component to it? Like if I dose 50ml in a 20g tank vs dosing 10ml in a 20g tank

Saying it has an antibacterial component makes it sound as if a product has been added to AFR to prevent bacteria growth, I don’t think that is the case, the “component” is its strength in an undiluted form…that’s what I take from Lou’s reply.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Honestly it doesn't make sense to me.

A) Regular rodi isn't antibacterial
B) salt mix otherwise isn't antibacterial while also having similar/same trace elements
C) why would dosing different amounts of AFR in a tank not potentially mess with the bacteria in the tank if it has an antibacterial component to it? Like if I dose 50ml in a 20g tank vs dosing 10ml in a 20g tank

It is the saltiness (ionic strength) that makes it antibacterial, not any antimicrobial attribute of the material.

Salting pork and fish is a tried and true way to preserve things from bacterial growth, but salt, once diluted, is not antimicrobial.

 

[areefer01]

Mind if I piggy back a question here? Is it recommended, or possible, to mix a 10 liter batch all at once? I'm dosing about 125 ml a day and considering mixing larger batches since I'm sort of a lazy reefer.

I guess what I am asking is if there are any negative side effects or loss of quality by mixing 10 liters at once to dose over 3 months.

Hope everyone's day is going well.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Mind if I piggy back a question here? Is it recommended, or possible, to mix a 10 liter batch all at once? I'm dosing about 125 ml a day and considering mixing larger batches since I'm sort of a lazy reefer.

I guess what I am asking is if there are any negative side effects or loss of quality by mixing 10 liters at once to dose over 3 months.

Hope everyone's day is going well.

There's no problem mixing/storing a large batch.

 

[Lou Ekus]

Mind if I piggy back a question here? Is it recommended, or possible, to mix a 10 liter batch all at once? I'm dosing about 125 ml a day and considering mixing larger batches since I'm sort of a lazy reefer.

I guess what I am asking is if there are any negative side effects or loss of quality by mixing 10 liters at once to dose over 3 months.

Hope everyone's day is going well.

Just adding my 2 cents and agreeing with @Randy Holmes-Farley on both of these points!