How much damage did I do to my BTA?

[pondgoblin]

Hello all!

Long time creeper, first time poster.

I appolgize for the long post but appreciate any advice (good or bad). This is going to be a 2 part issue.

I’m going to start off by saying that I’m new to the saltwater world but have a lot of knowledge in freshwater aquariums and ponds. This tank is my husband’s but I’ve taken the job of caretaker.

The tank has been established and stable for 4 months. The few fish that we had were thriving and numbers have been great. I do regular tests and also bring samples to 2 diff LFS that we visit and those results have been the same as mine. I’ve only been testing the basics: High range pH, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia.

First issue: 2 weeks ago we were at a local sushi place that we frequent. They have a massive reef tank that the owner meticulously cares for. The owner is a very traditional Japanese man. Very quiet, very polite. We only speak to his wife since her husband doesn't speak english well. They know that my husband has been wanting a reef tank of his own since he’s been admiring his for years. When he heard that we had established one he - unbeknownst to us at the time - took a few frags and a rose BTA and gifted them to my husband. While we were not really prepared to start the introduction of coral just yet we also didn't want to insult him by refusing his gift.

So we brought them home, acclimated them and then introduced them to the tank. Both the BTA ‘Bubbles’ and toadstool leathers have been flourishing but fish started to die. We have a very happy damsel and a cleanup crew thats equally happy left. Zero issues with them. So we figured as well as the LFS that something was introduced that caused the die off. We decided not to introduce any more fish until after the new year. Santa is bringing a UV for Christmas so I’d like to have that running before anything.

Second issue: We needed to top off the tank and I know I messed up. We topped off with RO and I added the correct amount of salt. BUT I realized after the fact that I should have done so gradually as not to cause the issue that it did. The corals retracted their polyps - but forgave my idiocy and are back to being happy. My worry is my beautiful BTA ‘Bubbles’. Its prob the size of a salad plate. Always full and bright during the day. Eats amazingly. ‘Goes to bed’ at night where it took up residency in a live rock ‘cave’ since it was introduced. When I added the salt and RO its completely retreated in on itself, way more than its normal night time retracting. From what I was reading it could be just really unhappy with me (completely valid, Im unhappy with myself now). This morning it had a few bubbles but was still completely undercover. I’ll attach a photo. Its not a good pic by any stretch due to where its residing. I hope I didn’t do any permanent damage to it. It’s one of my favorite things in the tank aside from my crabs and snail.

Theres also a pic of my test from approx 3:15EST today. Salinity is at 1.022 as of the same time.

If you’ve made it this far, thank you. You’re advice is appreciated. You wont be harder on me than I am on myself.

 

[edsbeaker]

Hello and welcome.

Don’t beat yourself up too much, we all start out making mistakes.

The first thing that we need to know is what size tank you have, type of lighting, and how are you measuring salinity, what are you testing for. Are you using API test kits for everything…they are not very reliable for reef tanks.

A few things jump out at me. First, you say you are topping off with salt water. When saltwater evaporates it leaves the salt behind, so you should only be adding RODI water to your tank for this purpose. Otherwise your salinity will be going higher and higher. The only time you will need to add salt water is for a water change. That saltwater should be mixed before hand so all of the salt is dissolved. Depending on the salt brand that should take a minimum of a few hours for some brands, and a day or two for others. The salinity and temperature should match the salinity in the tank so you don’t stress the livestock.

For a fish only tank, 1.022 is fine for salinity, but when you get into keeping inverts and coral a reef tank requires a higher salinity, usually 1.025-1.026.
This may be one of the reasons why the BTA is responding poorly. It probably came from a tank with higher salinity.

Here are some links to help you figure things out. I’m sure more people will give their thoughts and ideas. Keep learning! I’ve had reef tanks for 30 years and I’m still learning things every day AND still make mistakes.

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium This article was sponsored by @MarineDepot at www.marinedepot.com. Introduction The marine environment is one of the most complex systems on the planet. The aquarium you are about to set up is only a tiny sliver of the vast ocean...

www.reef2reef.com

Beginners Guide to Acclimation and Quarantine

Beginners Guide to Acclimation and Quarantine Your beautiful new display tank is up and ready for fish. You have come up with your stocking list and you are finally ready to buy your first fish but you aren’t confident on how to proceed. I am going to walk you through a basic acclimation and...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[braaap]

^ That pretty much covers it.

Get an ATO. You topoff with RO/DI water. NOT saltwater. An ATO will keep it stable. You also need to get your salinity up. How are you testing it?

 

[pondgoblin]

Hello and welcome.

Don’t beat yourself up too much, we all start out making mistakes.

The first thing that we need to know is what size tank you have, type of lighting, and how are you measuring salinity, what are you testing for. Are you using API test kits for everything…they are not very reliable for reef tanks.

A few things jump out at me. First, you say you are topping off with salt water. When saltwater evaporates it leaves the salt behind, so you should only be adding RODI water to your tank for this purpose. Otherwise your salinity will be going higher and higher. The only time you will need to add salt water is for a water change. That saltwater should be mixed before hand so all of the salt is dissolved. Depending on the salt brand that should take a minimum of a few hours for some brands, and a day or two for others. The salinity and temperature should match the salinity in the tank so you don’t stress the livestock.

For a fish only tank, 1.022 is fine for salinity, but when you get into keeping inverts and coral a reef tank requires a higher salinity, usually 1.025-1.026.
This may be one of the reasons why the BTA is responding poorly. It probably came from a tank with higher salinity.

Here are some links to help you figure things out. I’m sure more people will give their thoughts and ideas. Keep learning! I’ve had reef tanks for 30 years and I’m still learning things every day AND still make mistakes.

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium This article was sponsored by @MarineDepot at www.marinedepot.com. Introduction The marine environment is one of the most complex systems on the planet. The aquarium you are about to set up is only a tiny sliver of the vast ocean...

www.reef2reef.com

Beginners Guide to Acclimation and Quarantine

Beginners Guide to Acclimation and Quarantine Your beautiful new display tank is up and ready for fish. You have come up with your stocking list and you are finally ready to buy your first fish but you aren’t confident on how to proceed. I am going to walk you through a basic acclimation and...

www.reef2reef.com

Hi! And thanks for the reply! Yes I use an API kit for HR pH, nitrites, nitrates & ammonia. The LFS’s I go to use different kits. The tank is 45g. The lighting is a Current Orbit marine LED that I monitor on a loop app. Salinity is tested with a instant ocean hydrometer. We topped off with RO and then I added IO salt following the suggested guide. As of this morning the salinity is still holding at 1.022. What would you suggest to do to slowly/safely bump up the salinity for the frags and BTA? And what testing kit/s do you recommend. I’m open to anything. Research is overwhelming with all the ways people do things.

Since introducing the BTA its been thriving. Color has been great, eating very well, pooping normal. I always show our fish guy pics of it and the frags bc Im a paranoid new tank mom and they say that they all look good. This incident is the first time I’ve seen it not great. As of this morning theres been no change with the BTA. Its still tucked up in the cave but what little bit of tentacles I can see, they still have good color and looks like it *may* be moving. Very very slowly. Unless it wishful thinking. I added a pic from today.

Im not sure if its of any significance but I have noticed red string algae on the substrate only. Theres a pic of that also.

Thanks for the help and not raking me over the coals. Its refreshing. I’m going to check out those links now.

 

[pondgoblin]

^ That pretty much covers it.

Get an ATO. You topoff with RO/DI water. NOT saltwater. An ATO will keep it stable. You also need to get your salinity up. How are you testing it?

Hi! Thanks for the reply!

I test with a instant ocean hydrometer but I am open to other suggestions. I’m going to order an ATO today. I had no idea that was a thing. Thank you for suggesting it. Now I just need to figure out how to incorporate it since I’m not working with a lot of extra space. Good thing I am a pro at tetris and can make space appear

 

[edsbeaker]

Hi! And thanks for the reply! Yes I use an API kit for HR pH, nitrites, nitrates & ammonia. The LFS’s I go to use different kits. The tank is 45g. The lighting is a Current Orbit marine LED that I monitor on a loop app. Salinity is tested with a instant ocean hydrometer. We topped off with RO and then I added IO salt following the suggested guide. As of this morning the salinity is still holding at 1.022. What would you suggest to do to slowly/safely bump up the salinity for the frags and BTA? And what testing kit/s do you recommend. I’m open to anything. Research is overwhelming with all the ways people do things.

Since introducing the BTA its been thriving. Color has been great, eating very well, pooping normal. I always show our fish guy pics of it and the frags bc Im a paranoid new tank mom and they say that they all look good. This incident is the first time I’ve seen it not great. As of this morning theres been no change with the BTA. Its still tucked up in the cave but what little bit of tentacles I can see, they still have good color and looks like it *may* be moving. Very very slowly. Unless it wishful thinking. I added a pic from today.

Im not sure if it’s of any significance but I have noticed red string algae on the substrate only. Theres a pic ur top off water to of that also.

Thanks for the help and not raking me over the coals. Its refreshing. I’m going to check out those links now.

Your wording sounds like you are possibly adding dry reef salt straight into the tank. If this is the case it’s not safe, only add salt to the tank by premixing it into RODI water first! It also takes hours using a pump or power head for it to dissolve fully, so best to mix it up a day or two beforehand. Make sure you heat it to match the display tank temperature when making large water changes.

To bring up the salinity, you can replace your top off water (RODI without salt) for now to saltwater mixed to 1.025-1.026 salinity. JUST UNTIL THE TANK WATER IS AT 1.025!!! Then go back to plain RODI water for top offs. By doing this you will be adding in higher salinity water that will slowly bring your tank water to the correct salinity, but doing it slowly enough to not stress out your livestock.

Do you have a sump on this tank or are you using a filter of some kind?

 

[Joseph3]

As of this morning the salinity is still holding at 1.022. What would you suggest to do to slowly/safely bump up the salinity for the frags and BTA? And what testing kit/s do you recommend. I’m open to anything. Research is overwhelming with all the ways people do things.

Hi Pondgoblin,

I recommend raising the salinity to 1.025. Let this happen naturally by evaporation Top off with premixed 1.025 salt water until you reach your goal salinity, then resume topping off with freshwater.

This is the Ato I use. I’ve had it for 2.5 years and it still works great.

Also, I use Salifert test kits.

 

[edsbeaker]

Now let’s talk measuring salinity. If your hydrometer looks like this

There are more accurate types.
You can try a refractometer or I am a huge fan of this item to test salinity.

It never needs to be calibrated, it is accurate and consistent. The one negative is that it is easily breakable, so you need to be careful with it! I think it is a good choice for beginners because it is easily read.

As for other tests, API isn’t known to be very accurate or consistent. There are far better test kits. These are what I use, but do some searches and go with what is easiest for you to handle. Each person prefers different brands for various reasons.
I typically test for low range phosphate, nitrate, calcium, alkalinity and magnesium. For Phosphate, Nitrate and Alkalinity I use Hanna checkers. Here are the ones I use.

Phosphate Ultra Low Range PPM Colorimeter HI774 Hanna Checker - Marine Water​

Nitrate High Range Colorimeter HI782 - Marine Water​

Alkalinity DKH Colorimeter HI772 Hanna Checker - Marine Water​

For Calcium and Magnesium, I like the Red Sea Pro kits.

I would suggest to take it slowly from this point going forward until you are experienced enough to keep all the parameters stable. New tanks are typically all over the place especially until newer reefers gain some experience. Some Corals and anemones don’t do well with the ups and downs that new tanks go through. Easier things like soft corals, Zoas, mushrooms and clove polyps are all pretty undemanding to try until you are more comfortable in keeping parameters stable.

 

[braaap]

Now let’s talk measuring salinity. If your hydrometer looks like this

There are more accurate types.
You can try a refractometer or I am a huge fan of this item to test salinity.

It never needs to be calibrated, it is accurate and consistent. The one negative is that it is easily breakable, so you need to be careful with it! I think it is a good choice for beginners because it is easily read.

As for other tests, API isn’t known to be very accurate or consistent. There are far better test kits. These are what I use, but do some searches and go with what is easiest for you to handle. Each person prefers different brands for various reasons.
I typically test for low range phosphate, nitrate, calcium, alkalinity and magnesium. For Phosphate, Nitrate and Alkalinity I use Hanna checkers. Here are the ones I use.

Phosphate Ultra Low Range PPM Colorimeter HI774 Hanna Checker - Marine Water​

Nitrate High Range Colorimeter HI782 - Marine Water​

Alkalinity DKH Colorimeter HI772 Hanna Checker - Marine Water​

For Calcium and Magnesium, I like the Red Sea Pro kits.

I would suggest to take it slowly from this point going forward until you are experienced enough to keep all the parameters stable. New tanks are typically all over the place especially until newer reefers gain some experience. Some Corals and anemones don’t do well with the ups and downs that new tanks go through. Easier things like soft corals, Zoas, mushrooms and clove polyps are all pretty undemanding to try until you are more comfortable in keeping parameters stable.

The TM Hydrometer is an awful choice for beginners. It’s only accurate if the water is 77 degrees. If not 77 you need to convert the reading. You also need a deep vessel to measure. The best option for a beginner would be a BRS refractometer or a Hanna Salinity pen. Both come with detailed instructions and are very easy to use.

A swing arm is actually quite accurate too if cleaned with fresh water after use.

 

[tamanning]

Hello and welcome.

Don’t beat yourself up too much, we all start out making mistakes.

The first thing that we need to know is what size tank you have, type of lighting, and how are you measuring salinity, what are you testing for. Are you using API test kits for everything…they are not very reliable for reef tanks.

A few things jump out at me. First, you say you are topping off with salt water. When saltwater evaporates it leaves the salt behind, so you should only be adding RODI water to your tank for this purpose. Otherwise your salinity will be going higher and higher. The only time you will need to add salt water is for a water change. That saltwater should be mixed before hand so all of the salt is dissolved. Depending on the salt brand that should take a minimum of a few hours for some brands, and a day or two for others. The salinity and temperature should match the salinity in the tank so you don’t stress the livestock.

For a fish only tank, 1.022 is fine for salinity, but when you get into keeping inverts and coral a reef tank requires a higher salinity, usually 1.025-1.026.
This may be one of the reasons why the BTA is responding poorly. It probably came from a tank with higher salinity.

Here are some links to help you figure things out. I’m sure more people will give their thoughts and ideas. Keep learning! I’ve had reef tanks for 30 years and I’m still learning things every day AND still make mistakes.

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium This article was sponsored by @MarineDepot at www.marinedepot.com. Introduction The marine environment is one of the most complex systems on the planet. The aquarium you are about to set up is only a tiny sliver of the vast ocean...

www.reef2reef.com

Beginners Guide to Acclimation and Quarantine

Beginners Guide to Acclimation and Quarantine Your beautiful new display tank is up and ready for fish. You have come up with your stocking list and you are finally ready to buy your first fish but you aren’t confident on how to proceed. I am going to walk you through a basic acclimation and...

www.reef2reef.com

Sage advice .

 

[56longroof]

The TM Hydrometer is an awful choice for beginners. It’s only accurate if the water is 77 degrees. If not 77 you need to convert the reading. You also need a deep vessel to measure. The best option for a beginner would be a BRS refractometer or a Hanna Salinity pen. Both come with detailed instructions and are very easy to use.

A swing arm is actually quite accurate too if cleaned with fresh water after use.

Post in thread 'I'M STUMPED! Does temperature affect salinity?' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/im-stumped-does-temperature-affect-salinity.988614/post-11432083

Scroll down to Randy's post regarding temp. The swing arm hydrometers are all over the place in accuracy. I'd choose the TM one over any other method for a hobbiest. My swing arm reads 1.022 at 78° and the TM reads 1.255. I even took the swing arm with me to Gulf Shores to check it against natural seawater. It read 1.022.

 

[56longroof]

Welcome to R2R also!

 

[edsbeaker]

The TM Hydrometer is an awful choice for beginners. It’s only accurate if the water is 77 degrees. If not 77 you need to convert the reading. You also need a deep vessel to measure. The best option for a beginner would be a BRS refractometer or a Hanna Salinity pen. Both come with detailed instructions and are very easy to use.

A swing arm is actually quite accurate too if cleaned with fresh water after use.

I respectfully disagree that it is a AWFUL choice for a beginner. Everyone is different and is free to chose what works best for them.
Swing arm hydrometers if cleaned correctly, no air bubbles etc will sometimes be accurate, but much more susceptible to user error. A Refractometer needs to be calibrated, so what solution do you chose, how do you know the fluid is accurate, how do you know if it’s off? All of which could be difficult for a beginner to figure out. The TM hydrometer shows you the salinity and all you have to do is reference a chart if your temperature is different, very little chance for human error. You can easily buy a cheap 500 ml graduated cylinder or use in your tank.

 

[Jason boles]

just wanted to say welcome!!!

You’ve already gotten all the advice needed.

My 2 cents is to say they will most likely be just fine. Maybe ticked for a bit. I also read as though you added salt to the tank. If salt crystals fell directly on it, it may have left a burn in a sense.

Best thing to do is not concentrate on the problem and concentrate on steady good water.

I have nuked many nems. Got 5 for. 5 k once, turned into 18 or so, sold three and nuked the rest shortly after

Back up to 12 as of next delivery!

Welcome, and good luck. Nems are my fav

 

[pondgoblin]

Your wording sounds like you are possibly adding dry reef salt straight into the tank. If this is the case it’s not safe, only add salt to the tank by premixing it into RODI water first! It also takes hours using a pump or power head for it to dissolve fully, so best to mix it up a day or two beforehand. Make sure you heat it to match the display tank temperature when making large water changes.

To bring up the salinity, you can replace your top off water (RODI without salt) for now to saltwater mixed to 1.025-1.026 salinity. JUST UNTIL THE TANK WATER IS AT 1.025!!! Then go back to plain RODI water for top offs. By doing this you will be adding in higher salinity water that will slowly bring your tank water to the correct salinity, but doing it slowly enough to not stress out your livestock.

Do you have a sump on this tank or are you using a filter of some kind?

No. Def not adding dry. I mixed it with RO but def not long enough from what your saying. I do have a jug

Hi Pondgoblin,

I recommend raising the salinity to 1.025. Let this happen naturally by evaporation Top off with premixed 1.025 salt water until you reach your goal salinity, then resume topping off with freshwater.

This is the Ato I use. I’ve had it for 2.5 years and it still works great.

Also, I use Salifert test kits.

The ATO link or pic didn't come through. Can you repost it or pm me?

 

[pondgoblin]

Now let’s talk measuring salinity. If your hydrometer looks like this

There are more accurate types.
You can try a refractometer or I am a huge fan of this item to test salinity.

It never needs to be calibrated, it is accurate and consistent. The one negative is that it is easily breakable, so you need to be careful with it! I think it is a good choice for beginners because it is easily read.

As for other tests, API isn’t known to be very accurate or consistent. There are far better test kits. These are what I use, but do some searches and go with what is easiest for you to handle. Each person prefers different brands for various reasons.
I typically test for low range phosphate, nitrate, calcium, alkalinity and magnesium. For Phosphate, Nitrate and Alkalinity I use Hanna checkers. Here are the ones I use.

Phosphate Ultra Low Range PPM Colorimeter HI774 Hanna Checker - Marine Water​

Nitrate High Range Colorimeter HI782 - Marine Water​

Alkalinity DKH Colorimeter HI772 Hanna Checker - Marine Water​

For Calcium and Magnesium, I like the Red Sea Pro kits.

I would suggest to take it slowly from this point going forward until you are experienced enough to keep all the parameters stable. New tanks are typically all over the place especially until newer reefers gain some experience. Some Corals and anemones don’t do well with the ups and downs that new tanks go through. Easier things like soft corals, Zoas, mushrooms and clove polyps are all pretty undemanding to try until you are more comfortable in keeping parameters stable.

I’m going to order these. When I had inquired at one of the LFS I was told when I asked that the other tests dont really mean anything - that was from the very jaded owner. Thankfully I only go when I know hes not there and his much more honest and helpful workers are there.

As far as corals - I’m the more conservative when it comes to introducing things. My other half is the rusher. The plan is to only have hardy soft corals and not anytime soon. I want to focus on getting things stablized.

 

[pondgoblin]

Your wording sounds like you are possibly adding dry reef salt straight into the tank. If this is the case it’s not safe, only add salt to the tank by premixing it into RODI water first! It also takes hours using a pump or power head for it to dissolve fully, so best to mix it up a day or two beforehand. Make sure you heat it to match the display tank temperature when making large water changes.

To bring up the salinity, you can replace your top off water (RODI without salt) for now to saltwater mixed to 1.025-1.026 salinity. JUST UNTIL THE TANK WATER IS AT 1.025!!! Then go back to plain RODI water for top offs. By doing this you will be adding in higher salinity water that will slowly bring your tank water to the correct salinity, but doing it slowly enough to not stress out your livestock.

Do you have a sump on this tank or are you using a filter of some kind?

I diluted the instant ocean but not enough obviously. Going by the instruction was apparently not a great idea and I mean that honestly not sarcasticly. I have a jug of nutri seawater should that be sufficient to raise it?

I know its not ideal but for right now its an off the back marine filter. I dont recall the brand off the top of my head. It was marine compatible though.

 

[pondgoblin]

The TM Hydrometer is an awful choice for beginners. It’s only accurate if the water is 77 degrees. If not 77 you need to convert the reading. You also need a deep vessel to measure. The best option for a beginner would be a BRS refractometer or a Hanna Salinity pen. Both come with detailed instructions and are very easy to use.

A swing arm is actually quite accurate too if cleaned with fresh water after use.

The tank is kept at 77* and monitored digitally and by the loop app.

And yes the current hydrometer is rinsed only with fresh water and tapped to make sure theres no bubbles.

 

[pondgoblin]

Welcome to R2R also!

Thank you and thanks for the advice. Its all appreciated.

 

[pondgoblin]

just wanted to say welcome!!!

You’ve already gotten all the advice needed.

My 2 cents is to say they will most likely be just fine. Maybe ticked for a bit. I also read as though you added salt to the tank. If salt crystals fell directly on it, it may have left a burn in a sense.

Best thing to do is not concentrate on the problem and concentrate on steady good water.

I have nuked many nems. Got 5 for. 5 k once, turned into 18 or so, sold three and nuked the rest shortly after

Back up to 12 as of next delivery!

Welcome, and good luck. Nems are my fav

Bubbles is my favorite which is why I’m heartbroken and hoping that its just ***** with me. I keep checking on it to see if theres changes.