Multiple shrimp 20 gallon w/o fish - dying off

[BSej]

Hi all,

I was keeping 2 peppermint, 2 fire, and 2 cleaner shrimp in a 20 gallon cube without fish for quarantine. I was feeding frozen every few days, and I'm down to my last two shrimp. A few ended up in the powerhead - I'm assuming they died prior. Are they starving? Fighting? I haven't seen anything.

Thanks!

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Hi all,

I was keeping 2 peppermint, 2 fire, and 2 cleaner shrimp in a 20 gallon cube without fish for quarantine. I was feeding frozen every few days, and I'm down to my last two shrimp. A few ended up in the powerhead - I'm assuming they died prior. Are they starving? Fighting? I haven't seen anything.

Thanks!

We're going to need more info here:

-Are the shrimp fighting? (That's a lot of shrimp in a 20 gallon, and at least some of those shrimp are known to be territorial toward other shrimp).

-Is the QT cycled?

-Are you using RO/DI?

-What are the parameters?

-Do the shrimp have anywhere to hide in the QT? (Pics of the tank?)

 

[BSej]

I haven't seen the shrimp fight.
QT is cycled.
I fill the ATO with RO/DI.
Salinity - 35ppt
Nitrates ~ 5ppm
Not sure what other params are important because there aren't coral but last I checked
Alk - 8.5dkh
Calc - 450ppm

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I haven't seen the shrimp fight.
QT is cycled.
I fill the ATO with RO/DI.
Salinity - 35ppt
Nitrates ~ 5ppm
Not sure what other params are important because there aren't coral but last I checked
Alk - 8.5dkh
Calc - 450ppm

If ammonia is high that could be a concern, but I seriously doubt it in this case; pH can also be important with molting/shell development for inverts, but I'd be surprised if you have problematic pH levels. Stress can also cause problems.


Some more questions to help with troubleshooting:

Which shrimp are left?

What specifically, how much exactly, and how often are you feeding?

How strong is the flow?

Any chance or toxins or contaminants in the tank? (Seems really unlikely or the other two would presumably be dead as well, but it's good to cover the bases here).


For aggression, sometimes our observation changes the behavior of the animals - I've seen it recommended to leave a phone or camera recording the tank and leave the room for a while (several minutes/hours) and checking the footage to look for aggression.

 

[DaJMasta]

I would feed them more, and in my experience the fire cleaners are usually the dominant ones over the skunk cleaners, though the peppermints can usually get out of the way. The peppermints are also pretty good at hiding, so unless you've seen the bodies, they could still be about. 20 gallons may be enough for different space to be established, but smaller tanks definitely aren't, imo.

You say it's a QT tank, have you ever used copper in it? Do you have confidence in your salinity (recently checked, also checked the bag of water the shrimp came out of?)

Have you checked ammonia at all? While with rock you wouldn't expect it, with a death or two it could certainly spike.

 

[BSej]

If ammonia is high that could be a concern, but I seriously doubt it in this case; pH can also be important with molting/shell development for inverts, but I'd be surprised if you have problematic pH levels. Stress can also cause problems.


Some more questions to help with troubleshooting:

Which shrimp are left?

What specifically, how much exactly, and how often are you feeding?

How strong is the flow?

Any chance or toxins or contaminants in the tank? (Seems really unlikely or the other two would presumably be dead as well, but it's good to cover the bases here).


For aggression, sometimes our observation changes the behavior of the animals - I've seen it recommended to leave a phone or camera recording the tank and leave the room for a while (several minutes/hours) and checking the footage to look for aggression.

I lost one fire first, then a peppermint, then a skunk, and more recently the other skunk. This is over a 30 day period. I feed about 1/4 cube frozen every few days. The flow is not too strong - just one small powerhead on a mid-level setting. I don't think there would be any toxins/contaminants in the tank, no.

 

[BSej]

I would feed them more, and in my experience the fire cleaners are usually the dominant ones over the skunk cleaners, though the peppermints can usually get out of the way. The peppermints are also pretty good at hiding, so unless you've seen the bodies, they could still be about. 20 gallons may be enough for different space to be established, but smaller tanks definitely aren't, imo.

You say it's a QT tank, have you ever used copper in it? Do you have confidence in your salinity (recently checked, also checked the bag of water the shrimp came out of?)

Have you checked ammonia at all? While with rock you wouldn't expect it, with a death or two it could certainly spike.

Never copper. Checked salinity today. The two remaining shrimp have been in there for 30+ days - I ordered them online and acclimated them to my salinity before dropping them in. All 6 lasted a couple weeks before any died. I checked ammonia a while back and there was none. I pulled the bodies out of the tank for 3/4 dead guys.

 

[BSej]

I also forgot I have 1 yellow mushroom coral doing just fine in there.

 

[DaJMasta]

Well depending on how much life was on the rocks and how much food you fed when you did, I would say most things point to underfeeding.

While I probably overfeed, slightly overfeeding can reduce aggression, and I feed twice a day, every day. Daily should suffice, and shrimp will eat most things, but I would aim towards more food - they are organisms as big and sometimes as active as a fish of the same size, so they do have a dietary requirement that can only be met by detritus if there enough other things creating detritus.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Yeah, I'm leaning toward it being underfeeding as well.

 

[BSej]

Aw man I feel terrible now. Thanks for the help though everyone
I'll make sure to feed more moving forward.

 

[BSej]

Hey guys, my one fire shrimp I had in there just died as well. There are no shrimp in the tank, but I was feeding him pellets almost daily. Am I doing something wrong? Are fish a necessity?

Nitrates ~10ppm
Phosphates ~0
Salinity - 35ppt

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Hey guys, my one fire shrimp I had in there just died as well. There are no shrimp in the tank, but I was feeding him pellets almost daily. Am I doing something wrong? Are fish a necessity?

Nitrates ~10ppm
Phosphates ~0
Salinity - 35ppt

Fish aren't a necessity.

You say you were feeding almost daily - how much were you feeding, and what specifically were you feeding?

Looking at the tank pic again, it looks like they wouldn't really have anywhere to hide away completely (I see a bunch of arches, but no caves) - not having a place to hide while molting could be very stressful for them.

Any chance you know the pH or Ammonia? Any chance of contaminants or other toxins again?

 

[BSej]

Fish aren't a necessity.

You say you were feeding almost daily - how much were you feeding, and what specifically were you feeding?

Looking at the tank pic again, it looks like they wouldn't really have anywhere to hide away completely (I see a bunch of arches, but no caves) - not having a place to hide while molting could be very stressful for them.

Any chance you know the pH or Ammonia? Any chance of contaminants or other toxins again?

I fed a pinch of pellets, he would run down and eat them up quickly. There would be enough that he couldn't finish them all. I'd say he had a couple places to hide, there were times where I had to look hard and he was wedged between a couple rocks.

0 ammonia
highly doubt any toxins/contaminants.
I only have color strips for pH - it looks a tad low, but I have several corals in there doing fine.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

pinch of pellets

What specific pellets?

highly doubt any toxins/contaminants.

Just to try and rule things out - any exposed wires/mechanical parts from any tank equipment?

 

[BSej]

What specific pellets?

Just to try and rule things out - any exposed wires/mechanical parts from any tank equipment?

New Life Spectrum. No exposed parts.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

New Life Spectrum. No exposed parts.

Well, I'm basically out of ideas then.

How are you checking your salinity? Have you calibrated the instrument you're checking with?

 

[BSej]

Well, I'm basically out of ideas then.

How are you checking your salinity? Have you calibrated the instrument you're checking with?

Yeah I check with a refractometer, I calibrate it before every use. Haven't had any issues with it prior. I actually made a mistake, however. The salinity was not 35ppt it was 30ppt. I've been increasing it slowly over the last couple days. It's 32ppt now the day it died. Not fast enough to cause issues though.