QT Blue Tang - Copper Dosage and Ramping

[alex37310]

Good morning #fishmedic

@Jay Hemdal
I have read your 2023 QT process and are using this to QT my first fish. I just got a very very small Yellow Belly Blue Tang and acclimated him to my QT after matching temp and salinity.

Gravity was 1.022 in bag and I set tank to 1.023
Ph 8.3

I just spent the first 48h observing and am ready to start copper power. Nothing noticeable so far.

20L Tank is bare bottom with a couple pvc pipe and a decorative dome.
Hob filter with sponge from my cycled DT sump.
1 small air stone
480gph flow pump

1st question: How much copper should I use? I read 2.25-2.5 but all forums of qt blue tangs mention barely 2ppm and hypo tangs having some kind of reactions to copper power.

#2: Should I ramp up dosage or full dose? If so how much and how fast ideally.

#3 planning on doing the full 30d copper and 3 round prazi then 10day copper. Do I need to do any dips? Anything am planning wrong or should be changing for this specific fish?

Thanks in advance!

Btw I just got a Hanna check HR so no worries there

And if you haven’t checked it out, I think everyone should look at @Jay Hemdal QT Process! @REEF2REEF :

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[threebuoys]

You are on the right track!

I used the full 2.5 CopperPower dosage for my powder Blue as well as all of my other fish with no problems. I have a Copper Band Butterfly and a wrasse in the final does of praziquantel at the moment.


I add 50% of the copper dose, wait 6 hours, test for concentration, then add the last dose. If ich spots are present, I would wait only an hour, and then add the second dose. I do this only to be sure the concentration is accurate before the final dose.

Be sure to keep an eye on ammonia. The sponge from your DT is an excellent wan to manage nitrates, but just be sure it is working. Also, check the copper concentration daily until you are confident it is not dropping.

 

[alex37310]

Thank you! My DT just finished cycling, it’s only 1mo so not sure how well it is established for nitrates..
what level should I keep under?
I have a seachem badge in the qt for ammonia

I will make sure to test every day, at least until I notice sustained numbers then maybe every 2-3 day to save on tests lol.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[MnFish1]

1st question: How much copper should I use? I read 2.25-2.5 but all forums of qt blue tangs mention barely 2ppm and hypo tangs having some kind of reactions to copper power.

I would use the standard 2-2.5 ppm

#2: Should I ramp up dosage or full dose? If so how much and how fast ideally.

No - you can dose fully

#3 planning on doing the full 30d copper and 3 round prazi then 10day copper. Do I need to do any dips? Anything am planning wrong or should be changing for this specific fish?

I would not do dips. You should only need 2 prazipro rounds and I would not repeat copper. Hope this helps - Show a picture of your tank - would be nice to see

 

[Uncle99]

If he’s happy at 48hrs, eats swims looks healthy has great energy, and he continues this way for the 30 day period, why use copper at all?

All meds create some stress and can lower appetite, which seems counterproductive IMM.

Just curious.

 

[MnFish1]

If he’s happy at 48hrs, eats swims looks healthy has great energy, and he continues this way for the 30 day period, why use copper at all?

All meds create some stress and can lower appetite, which seems counterproductive IMM.

Just curious.

This is all true - however, It is reasonable to have a biosecurity protocol - and the risk is lower than losing everygthing a couple years /months/weeks when you add a new fish

Thank you! My DT just finished cycling, it’s only 1mo so not sure how well it is established for nitrates..
what level should I keep under?
I have a seachem badge in the qt for ammonia

I will make sure to test every day, at least until I notice sustained numbers then maybe every 2-3 day to save on tests lol.

Thanks for the feedback!

So - first - it would be best not to treat with copper in a display tank - though maybe I'm misunderstanding.

 

[Uncle99]

This is all true - however, It is reasonable to have a biosecurity protocol - and the risk is lower than losing everygthing a couple years /months/weeks when you add a new fish

So - first - it would be best not to treat with copper in a display tank - though maybe I'm misunderstanding.

I think I understand what you’re saying. I was concerned being the first fish, a blue tang, and the use of copper, three things that don’t go well together and have to be very carefully completed and maintained daily, or both the supposed illness and the fish can die.

Just a different protocol for me.

 

[MnFish1]

I think I understand what you’re saying. I was concerned being the first fish, a blue tang, and the use of copper, three things that don’t go well together and have to be very carefully completed and maintained daily, or both the supposed illness and the fish can die.

Just a different protocol for me.

Any copper dosing - as you said - needs frequent (daily or more) monitoring for levels, effectiveness, and toxicity!! Though I'm in the fish medic camp - I have never personally had a QT tank - BUT - I buy my fish from a reputable local dealer that does. Internet buying IMHO - requires QT with medication

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

A Hanna Copper Checker is a must, for monitoring the Copper levels.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

If he’s happy at 48hrs, eats swims looks healthy has great energy, and he continues this way for the 30 day period, why use copper at all?

All meds create some stress and can lower appetite, which seems counterproductive IMM.

Just curious.

Many diseases can be present as chronic infections and go unseen for longer than 30 days - then, if you don’t proactively treat for those and move the fish into a DT, you can then see an acute infection. Remember that ich tomonts can remain viable for over 45 days.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you! My DT just finished cycling, it’s only 1mo so not sure how well it is established for nitrates..
what level should I keep under?
I have a seachem badge in the qt for ammonia

I will make sure to test every day, at least until I notice sustained numbers then maybe every 2-3 day to save on tests lol.

Thanks for the feedback!

Sounds like the fish medics have confirmed you are on the right path here…..

 

[Uncle99]

Any copper dosing - as you said - needs frequent (daily or more) monitoring for levels, effectiveness, and toxicity!! Though I'm in the fish medic camp - I have never personally had a QT tank - BUT - I buy my fish from a reputable local dealer that does. Internet buying IMHO - requires QT with medication

Yup, if I don’t “know” source or conduct, likely a valued exercise. I value your input a lot!

I am lucky I can see my fish and the environment kept in, then “hold” that fish for two weeks before I get it, so that lowers the risk a lot.

I forget that some must have fish shipped and buy site unseen.

Now I understand better.

I am counting my lucky stars now, 40 years, not a med of any kind ever used, and only once, a clown, got ick but he acted squirrelly from the start, used hypo which worked well.

 

[alex37310]

This is all true - however, It is reasonable to have a biosecurity protocol - and the risk is lower than losing everygthing a couple years /months/weeks when you add a new fish

So - first - it would be best not to treat with copper in a display tank - though maybe I'm misunderstanding.

Apologies for the confusion, I’m treating the qt , I placed the sponge from the newly established DT to the QT. But my DT being new, I’m not sure if I have proper bioload on the sponge to treat nitrate as I think the nitrate bacteria’s develop last? Maybe I’m misunderstanding that part a bit..

 

[alex37310]

I think I understand what you’re saying. I was concerned being the first fish, a blue tang, and the use of copper, three things that don’t go well together and have to be very carefully completed and maintained daily, or both the supposed illness and the fish can die.

Just a different protocol for me.

So this is actually my 3rd fish, I have 2 oscelaris that are going through prazi/metro in DT due to white mucusy/stringy poop and no eating for 4 days. But I did not QT them, the tang is the first one going through proper qt process. Let’s just say the clowns situation spooked me enough to make sure I’m being careful. And yes the tang was ordered on saltwaterfish.com which I have not established trust with so im going to qt anything I don’t 100% trust myself

 

[alex37310]

Any copper dosing - as you said - needs frequent (daily or more) monitoring for levels, effectiveness, and toxicity!! Though I'm in the fish medic camp - I have never personally had a QT tank - BUT - I buy my fish from a reputable local dealer that does. Internet buying IMHO - requires QT with medication

So I finally dosed copper and did the 50/50 but I’m having some issues.
First time using a Hanna tester, which I got for its reputation to be really reliable and accurate.
Dosage says 1oz for 20g. My tank is filled 15g.
So I did 11ml to get to around 1.2 and the hanna measured 2.5!!!
I’ve been watching different YouTube videos on how to do it and am doing everything as is!
It didn’t really make sense to me that 11ml would give me 2.5 so I did an other test and this time it read 1 and the color was much lighter!
Was very confused…
Added the other half then tested later and was at 5ppm!!!!
Same thing, I did a second test with the second vial, came out much lighter, and gave me 2.0!!
What the heck is going on?!!

I do want to say that I waited a few hours after dosing to measure to make sure there was no hot spots of high/low concentration

 

[threebuoys]

So I finally dosed copper and did the 50/50 but I’m having some issues.
First time using a Hanna tester, which I got for its reputation to be really reliable and accurate.
Dosage says 1oz for 20g. My tank is filled 15g.
So I did 11ml to get to around 1.2 and the hanna measured 2.5!!!
I’ve been watching different YouTube videos on how to do it and am doing everything as is!
It didn’t really make sense to me that 11ml would give me 2.5 so I did an other test and this time it read 1 and the color was much lighter!
Was very confused…
Added the other half then tested later and was at 5ppm!!!!
Same thing, I did a second test with the second vial, came out much lighter, and gave me 2.0!!
What the heck is going on?!!

I do want to say that I waited a few hours after dosing to measure to make sure there was no hot spots of high/low concentration

How long did you wait after each dose for the copper to mix completely with the water before testing?

Getting all of the reagent out of the packet into the cuvette can sometimes be challenging. Takes practice.

Be sure no water drops remain in the cuvette when you rinse and clean. Wipe off the outside of the cuvettes with a clean, soft cloth or paper towel so no finger prints, dirt, oils, etc remain before placing in the device..

Be sure to shake the cuvette until absolutely no white powder remains visible in the water. Sometimes the powder will clump and this can take a few minutes.

Do you have anything in the tank that might absorb copper? sand/gravel with a calcium base, granulated carbon, a piece of dead coral, etc?

The two step process you are using helps correct for situations like you are experiencing. You will get the hang of it.

 

[alex37310]

How long did you wait after each dose for the copper to mix completely with the water before testing?

Getting all of the reagent out of the packet into the cuvette can sometimes be challenging. Takes practice.

Be sure no water drops remain in the cuvette when you rinse and clean. Wipe off the outside of the cuvettes with a clean, soft cloth or paper towel so no finger prints, dirt, oils, etc remain before placing in the device..

Be sure to shake the cuvette until absolutely no white powder remains visible in the water. Sometimes the powder will clump and this can take a few minutes.

Do you have anything in the tank that might absorb copper? sand/gravel with a calcium base, granulated carbon, a piece of dead coral, etc?

The two step process you are using helps correct for situations like you are experiencing. You will get the hang of it.

I shake it for a good 15-20sec then do the 45sec timer.
I wipe down the jars each time properly so there is no smudges, the color of the test is clearly different on both jars while being taken within minutes of each other. Same thing happened again this morning. First test reading 5, second reading 2.6.

Took a full video of the process I’m going to upload.

I’m so confused, going to add a bit of water to slowly raise salinity and reduce copper to 2.5.

No substrate/rocks in the tank, everything I have is listed in OP. Just 2 pvc and a plastic cover decoration.

 

[alex37310]

 

[threebuoys]

I have never seen a color as dark as the one on the left. No wonder it reads +5




Just to check everything,

You are using The HI702 Hanna Copper HR checker with the HI702 reagent with a valid exp. date?


Gotta be an explanation here, somewhere.

 

[alex37310]

How long did you wait after each dose for the copper to mix completely with the water before testing?

Getting all of the reagent out of the packet into the cuvette can sometimes be challenging. Takes practice.

Be sure no water drops remain in the cuvette when you rinse and clean. Wipe off the outside of the cuvettes with a clean, soft cloth or paper towel so no finger prints, dirt, oils, etc remain before placing in the device..

Be sure to shake the cuvette until absolutely no white powder remains visible in the water. Sometimes the powder will clump and this can take a few minutes.

Do you have anything in the tank that might absorb copper? sand/gravel with a calcium base, granulated carbon, a piece of dead coral, etc?

The two step process you are using helps correct for situations like you are experiencing. You will get the hang of it.

It seems that every time I test, the first reading is completely off and way too high.

In my exemple I have a 20l that had about 15g of water. Instruction says 1fl oz/29.6ml per 20g
So if I’m correct 29.6x0.75=22.2ml
I did 55% of that: 11ml which should give me around 1.2ppm
Yet first reading was 2.5ppm which I would have had to either have 7g tank to be accurate or put two full 10ml dose of copper power which I did not, so clearly first was wrong.
Second test with a new reagent gave me 1.02ppm, more in line with what I should expect.

I doubled the dose then first test gives me 5ppm, once again impossible, second test gives me 2ppm, which made total sense.

Last dose measured 5ppm again after adding 4ml, again impossible, second test give me 2.6, which makes sense.

I’m going through reagent twice as fast and keep getting wrong results on first tests and the reagent color of the vial is clearly darker on my first test.

I wanted to say at first it might be an execution issue, but I consistently do the same thing twice and have the same issue happening now 3 times!

I’m so confused…