Receiving damaged “ but alive” livestock conundrum

[Doctorgori]

Rant/vent/plea….
This concerns the conundrum or receiving stressed, diseased, bleached or famished livestock within the framework of most vendors DOA policy.

Unlike vendors selling consumer electronic products, vendors selling “biologicals” simply have no way to reasonably parse out their liability from end user neglect. Therefore DOA policies usually expire in 24hrs leaving LOTS of surface area for shipping products with a pre existing “death sentence”: Bleached corals, gaping clams, skinny fish, et…

….basically us livestock consumers receive products that are technically alive as agreed but in fact have a much more limited shelf life than than expected.

The consumers depend on word of mouth and vendor feedback to shape our purchasing choices. A Formal Feedback system is a compiled form of this. Negative feedback bias not withstanding, positive resolution of a negative transaction also has value, and a feedback system should also provide information about problem resolution.

While I fully understand that an open forum with multiple contributors in a single thread makes accurate feedback difficult (a vendor flame thread) I likewise wonder if the current vendor feedback format that has us sifting though many pages of feedback from a single vendor is any more accurate/efficient than sifting through pages of many vendors with a single contributor per thread.

When looking at feedback I ask:
What was the loss? what was the compensation?
What was the reason for the loss?
What part of this issue got resolved via email or pm?

…..and there is the rub: under the current system, any part of dialogue between vendor and customer can remain private. If the problem and its resolution can’t be followed from end to end then what’s the point?

if the point of this privacy is to remain “flexible” on a “case by case” basis, then that’s my point: the advantage of dialogue privacy serves only the vendor, it slows needed process change.

Trunacated/private feedback/resolution = inaccurate feedback/resolution

I just had an issue with a vendor, turns out it wasn’t a single incident. I get that threads of vendor “flame fest” can affect a websites bottom line but IMO the current format isn’t informing the public as well as it should

I might have saved a few thousand had this issue been available to me in a public open forum. I wasted a lot of time and money

 

[Naekuh]

This is why i like liveaquria... they have like a 7 day gaurentee.
But lately LiveAquria has been a total disappointment.

It seems like the packaging guys there or at quality marine just do not care anymore, and sometimes won't even bother with heat packs.

The last shipment i got from them was about 100 dollars in frozen foods, and some idiot thought it would be a good idea not to pack any dry ice in it, although it said 2.28kg, but none was seen, and this was overnight fedex from a location only 30 min away.

Needless to say half the package came completely melted. They refuned the order, but i think this is the last time i will order from them.

If i knew this, i would of went there personally and picked up the package that day.

TopAquatics tho, the last shipment was TOP Notch... i can see myself ordering more from them in the future.

 

[Doctorgori]

But lately LiveAquria has been a total disappointment.

I go ahead and just pay the slightly higher price from DrReef anymore.., if you do the math factoring in losses, the “Premium” dealers are actually cheaper
Added:?I have easily spent in the thousands with Fosters and Smith thru Live Aquaria. to say they have fallen off is a gross understatement

 

[BeanAnimal]

I go ahead and just pay the slightly higher price from DrReef anymore.., if you do the math factoring in losses, the “Premium” dealers are actually cheaper
Added:?I have easily spent in the thousands with Fosters and Smith thru Live Aquaria. to say they have fallen off is a gross understatement

R2R (or any forum) can do nothing but make matters worse. He trying to help. Bad vendors, dishonest competitors and unreasonable or dishonest buyers will always break or game the system out of selfishness. We live in a buyer beware world where some vendors via their actions rise above others.

Lessons learned are sometimes expensive, but most of us know when we are taking a gamble to save a buck or ten. Read and fully understand terms before buying from anybody and act according to your risk tolerance.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

This is why I only buy from well known sellers on here. Most have always been quick to resolve an issue. I’ve only had one irritating experience with someone here, but since they refunded me (begrudgingly) I left it alone.

Sick/stressed corals/critters are just as bad as DOA in my opinion.

-Matt

 

[sc50964]

I’ve had good experience lately with NYA. Even when the fish I got started to go south but didn’t make it until after its 14 day, Leah honored their policy.

 

[Naekuh]

But the thing is it really sucks for some of us who do not live near a LFS.

Like me for example.. i live in Los Angeles..You'd think we have a LOT of LFS vendors, but NO.
Each and every vendor is net 45min - 1h30m drive away.
Even then some LFS do not carry the brand of frozen food you want. A Lot of them for example carry basic mysis and brine shrimp, with some expensive other brands like Prime Reef.
Not saying its bad, but some of my fishs do not like that stuff.

If i want the specialty stuff, like frozen baby brine, or frozen copepods, or canius, i need to order it.
Its also difficult to find something simple like Omega Enriched Brine shrimp, as most vendors prefer regular brine shrimp.

 

[Oldreefer44]

IME, inevitably it is the "most wanted" fish that arrives dead or close to it. So to replace one fish and have to repay for shipping is not worth it. Have had this issue even with the pre quarantined vendors. The best experience I have had is also with NYA.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

But the thing is it really sucks for some of us who do not live near a LFS.

Like me for example.. i live in Los Angeles..You'd think we have a LOT of LFS vendors, but NO.
Each and every vendor is net 45min - 1h30m drive away.
Even then some LFS do not carry the brand of frozen food you want. A Lot of them for example carry basic mysis and brine shrimp, with some expensive other brands like Prime Reef.
Not saying its bad, but some of my fishs do not like that stuff.

If i want the specialty stuff, like frozen baby brine, or frozen copepods, or canius, i need to order it.
It’s also difficult to find something simple like Omega Enriched Brine shrimp, as most vendors prefer regular brine shrimp.

Similar situation for me.

I’m in Baton Rouge, LA (the other LA) and the few LFS around here are disappointing. Just a lot of super basic corals that are infested with algae and priced through the roof.

I miss my old LFS back in Florida.

I, too, have to order everything and roll the dice on condition upon arrival.

-Matt

 

[BeanAnimal]

IME, inevitably it is the "most wanted" fish that arrives dead or close to it. So to replace one fish and have to repay for shipping is not worth it. Have had this issue even with the pre quarantined vendors. The best experience I have had is also with NYA.

Getting any fish alive through mail order is low odds. Yes even with a good vendor, the costs can mount on both sides when there is an issue.

 

[Doctorgori]

R2R (or any forum) can do nothing but make matters worse. He trying to help. Bad vendors, dishonest competitors and unreasonable or dishonest buyers will always break or game the system out of selfishness. We live in a buyer beware world where some vendors via their actions rise above others

and not just that it’s a dammed if you do/dammed if you don’t situation: placate the torch wielding mob, or mitigate some bottom line damage to the actual folks paying the bills. Just can’t possibly balance it perfectly

Sick/stressed corals/critters are just as bad as DOA in my opinion.

and what do you do about bleached sticks from hot bags? some live/some don’t …this has been my irk

I’ve had good experience lately with NYA.

who/what is NYA ? always looking for a good experience lol

But the thing is it really sucks for some of us who do not live near a LFS.

my current metro can't support a Los Angeles/Orlando class LFS ….

So to replace one fish and have to repay for shipping is not worth it

and that’s just it, to recoup my loss I have to use my “store credit” along with my next shipping charges. What if I’m not planning on making a purchase in a while or ever?

I, too, have to order everything and roll the dice on condition upon arrival.

Another catch 22, the arrival condition relates to longevity, as in you paid for a Anthias with a expected year lifespan but you get 2 weeks while it uses up the last of its fat reserves

 

[sc50964]

NYA is NY Aquatic.

Leah isn’t working tho. So I’m not sure if the same good customer service is still there but it’s prob worth to ask them.