Strange Issues....

[Jody Owens]

I am having a very strange issue in my big aquarium. I have had some fish randomly die. We thought it could be ich, but the fish do not look like it is ich. It actually looks more to be velvet or a possible bacterial infection. A large majority of the fish in the tank are all eating well and appear to be healthy. The blue tangs will occasionally scratch on the rocks a little bit. They weren't doing this until we started feeding with Metroplex and Focus. They seem to be the only fish doing it.

We thought that everything was clean and back to normally. Because of this, we introduced some new fish. Some of them started showing the signs of the issue, but were still eating. Today was the third day of Metroplex being fed to them. It was the first day that a few of the fish didn't seem to want to eat. They did eat previously.

I am working to try and get pictures of the fish, but it is proving to be difficult to find some that are showing signs. We thought it could be velvet, but I was always told that it will destroy a tank in a matter of hours to maybe a day at most. This has been an ongoing issue for awhile. The only strange thing that we did was purchase some of the snails from ebay which we researched later to find that they are not a good idea. We worked to get as many of them out of the tank as possible.

On the system, we are running dual Pentair HO 80W UVs in series fed by a VarioS-4 pump currently on the speed setting of three. The water from the return chamber feeds into the pump then out of the UVs back into the sump. I know that this isn't the optimal way, but it is how we currently have it. If it needs to be changed, I can try getting that done. The sump is dirty, but I am not sure that would have a large effect on the system. Tonight I added a dedicated airpump and air stone running 100% to add additional oxygen to the tank.

I am open to suggestions on things to do. I have considered dosing the tank with Prazi incase it is flukes from the snails, but I am not totally sure. Thank you for all of the help and suggestions.

 

[Jekyl]

Can you please provide white light photos and a 30 second video? Linking youtube works the best.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I am having a very strange issue in my big aquarium. I have had some fish randomly die. We thought it could be ich, but the fish do not look like it is ich. It actually looks more to be velvet or a possible bacterial infection. A large majority of the fish in the tank are all eating well and appear to be healthy. The blue tangs will occasionally scratch on the rocks a little bit. They weren't doing this until we started feeding with Metroplex and Focus. They seem to be the only fish doing it.

We thought that everything was clean and back to normally. Because of this, we introduced some new fish. Some of them started showing the signs of the issue, but were still eating. Today was the third day of Metroplex being fed to them. It was the first day that a few of the fish didn't seem to want to eat. They did eat previously.

I am working to try and get pictures of the fish, but it is proving to be difficult to find some that are showing signs. We thought it could be velvet, but I was always told that it will destroy a tank in a matter of hours to maybe a day at most. This has been an ongoing issue for awhile. The only strange thing that we did was purchase some of the snails from ebay which we researched later to find that they are not a good idea. We worked to get as many of them out of the tank as possible.

On the system, we are running dual Pentair HO 80W UVs in series fed by a VarioS-4 pump currently on the speed setting of three. The water from the return chamber feeds into the pump then out of the UVs back into the sump. I know that this isn't the optimal way, but it is how we currently have it. If it needs to be changed, I can try getting that done. The sump is dirty, but I am not sure that would have a large effect on the system. Tonight I added a dedicated airpump and air stone running 100% to add additional oxygen to the tank.

I am open to suggestions on things to do. I have considered dosing the tank with Prazi incase it is flukes from the snails, but I am not totally sure. Thank you for all of the help and suggestions.

Ideal would be a you tube video of at least 30 seconds under white light intensity .
Whether ich or velvet, they both treat similar and to be done in a separate treatment tank but lets see what the video reveals.
Are fish breathing normal? Pull off the metro which may do more harm that good as it must be applied precisely and makes the food taste bitter

 

[Jody Owens]

Ideal would be a you tube video of at least 30 seconds under white light intensity .
Whether ich or velvet, they both treat similar and to be done in a separate treatment tank but lets see what the video reveals.
Are fish breathing normal? Pull off the metro which may do more harm that good as it must be applied precisely and makes the food taste bitter

I have attached some pictures of the fish under the 10k light setting. I wasn't able to get all of the fish in the tank, but I got some different ones. The sailfin seems to be doing fine, but the Gem just stopped eating today. You did say that could be related to metro.

In regards to the video, right now the fish are sleeping so they really aren't active. I can work on getting a movie tomorrow. I am also planning on changing the way the UV goes back into the tank. It will go sump to the main display.

 

[Jody Owens]

Let me know if this video works. I will work on getting an additional one tomorrow.

 

[Jody Owens]

The Gem died tonight. Here is what he looked like when I got him out and tried to see if the dipping would help.

 

[Jody Owens]

We found something on the eye of the Gem. I put it under the microscope and took a picture. This is the lowest magnification I can get from the camera.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Let me know if this video works. I will work on getting an additional one tomorrow.

Clown has brook or ich, sailfin appears to have ich which the spots today may likely increase in number, id so, Gem appears to be a victim of aggression and one of the harder fish too separate ich with their natural dots. Gem is also breathing rapidly and in distress and Best is to isolate all and remaining fish in a sterile quarantine tank and treat with coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off and with occupants exposed, they too should go into quarantine
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The Gem died tonight. Here is what he looked like when I got him out and tried to see if the dipping would help.

Sorry to hear about the gem. In the video, it clearly has some sort of parasitic infection, but it isn't clear to me exactly what. The three most common causes and their main symptoms are:

Marine ich - will start with the typical white spots and the fish continue to eat until late in the infection, then they can look like the gem did in the video, time frame of about 10 to 14 days.

Velvet - rapid breathing and not eating from the very start, less likely to see skin issues, most fish may die in 3 to 5 days.

Flukes - scratching/flashing, a general bedraggled look. When it gets bad, it will look like the gem did, but that takes weeks. Not all fish will be affected, and fish loss will be spread out over weeks.

The object you photographed doesn't look like a fluke, but FW dips really distort them. With bad fluke infestations, you'd see hundreds of these though.

 

[Jody Owens]

Sorry to hear about the gem. In the video, it clearly has some sort of parasitic infection, but it isn't clear to me exactly what. The three most common causes and their main symptoms are:

Marine ich - will start with the typical white spots and the fish continue to eat until late in the infection, then they can look like the gem did in the video, time frame of about 10 to 14 days.

Velvet - rapid breathing and not eating from the very start, less likely to see skin issues, most fish may die in 3 to 5 days.

Flukes - scratching/flashing, a general bedraggled look. When it gets bad, it will look like the gem did, but that takes weeks. Not all fish will be affected, and fish loss will be spread out over weeks.

The object you photographed doesn't look like a fluke, but FW dips really distort them. With bad fluke infestations, you'd see hundreds of these though.

The Gem was just put in the tank the first part of the week (Monday evening to be exact). it was currently the first fish to die from the new ones we put in. There are other fish in the tank that have been there are months. Because of that, I was ruling out velvet because my understanding is the other fish would already be dead.

In regards to Ich, the gem had not been in the tank that long. That is why I am so confused because it should have taken longer to die from it.

Now for flukes, we did some research and some of the signs of flukes are:

Loss of color
Cloudy eyes
Heavy breathing
Mucus buildup

The fish that have died all had a severe loss in color. I couldn’t do a slide on them because I didn’t have a microscope at that time. I am wondering if the excess mucus could be allowing sand or other particles to stick to them. The other strange issue is the time frame for them going in the tank to death.

I guess a question would be: Would dosing the tank with Prazi be bad if it could be flukes? Shoals we discontinue metroplex?

 

[Jody Owens]

Clown has brook or ich, sailfin appears to have ich which the spots today may likely increase in number, id so, Gem appears to be a victim of aggression and one of the harder fish too separate ich with their natural dots. Gem is also breathing rapidly and in distress and Best is to isolate all and remaining fish in a sterile quarantine tank and treat with coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off and with occupants exposed, they too should go into quarantine
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

What else could house parasites? The tank is loaded with nems right now.

 

[MnFish1]

IME, though velvet can kill rapidly, not every fish will die - Once an infection 'ramps up' and parasite numbers are higher can be the tank-wipe out scenario.

In either case, I think @vetteguy53081 s advice is correct - you should remove your fish (all of them) to a separate tank, treat with copper and Prazipro per protocol leaving your display fallow for 6-8 weeks. I would definitely not add any new fish to the tank.

As to the anemones, they would not relate to ich, velvet or flukes (or brook). I would not treat with oral metronidazole unless you have a reason for that - since it's impossible to know whether you're overdosing the fish if they are eating too much.

Hope this helps - know its a stressful issue and time!

 

[Jody Owens]

IME, though velvet can kill rapidly, not every fish will die - Once an infection 'ramps up' and parasite numbers are higher can be the tank-wipe out scenario.

In either case, I think @vetteguy53081 s advice is correct - you should remove your fish (all of them) to a separate tank, treat with copper and Prazipro per protocol leaving your display fallow for 6-8 weeks. I would definitely not add any new fish to the tank.

As to the anemones, they would not relate to ich, velvet or flukes (or brook). I would not treat with oral metronidazole unless you have a reason for that - since it's impossible to know whether you're overdosing the fish if they are eating too much.

Hope this helps - know its a stressful issue and time!

What if I removed the nems and dosed copper into the DT? Would I be able to get it back out?

 

[MnFish1]

What if I removed the nems and dosed copper into the DT? Would I be able to get it back out?

One problem with dosing copper is that rocks, etc can adsorb some of it - meaning maintaining levels is trickier - and after the treatment is done, you now have to worry about the lingering copper on rocks, sand, etc. It can be removed (slowly - with filtration) - but in the mean time your anemones will need to stay out of the display

 

[vetteguy53081]

What if I removed the nems and dosed copper into the DT? Would I be able to get it back out?

Trust any advise- That tank once copper is entered will be a fish only tank. A separate Quarantine tank will prove invaluable both now and moving forward with future additions to prevent re-occurrence of disease issue. Leave the inverts and any coral in display

 

[vetteguy53081]

What else could house parasites? The tank is loaded with nems right now.

Parasites can come in with purchased water or bags with fish as well as coral and inverts additions.

 

[Jody Owens]

Parasites can come in with purchased water or bags with fish as well as coral and inverts additions.

Could the nassarirus snails we purchased from eBay been carrying something?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Could the nassarirus snails we purchased from eBay been carrying something?

Unless viewed under a microscope while possible, hard to confirm.

 

[Jody Owens]

Is there anything that I can do with a microscope to help narrow it down?

 

[GARRIGA]

Point of reference. Shouldn't isolated quarantine be extended to FOLLOW period in display tank. Seems obvious but rarely said and just pointing it out. Display and QT minimum 72 days..