What will happen to the Great Barrier Reef?

[Jase4224]

Ain't buying the rising temperature on Global Warming is CAUSED BY HUMANS.

One volcanic eruption/explosion causes more damage than yeeeeears of human environmental factors.

MOTHER EARTH has been evolving and changing for......drum rooooooooll..... 4.5 billion years.

when our dead bones turn to fine sand,.... Mother Earth will still be evolving and changing, creating beautiful landscape and REEFS and yet hellish destruction all at the same time all over the Planet

Who's to say in 3 million years the deserts of Africa aren't a might rainforest while the Amazon is overrun with an Ice Age?

100,000 yrs ago Ohio had an Ice Glacier pushing rock and soil that eventually formed the Ohio River and the rolling hills of Kentucky .

Yet 100,000 yrs later in current times Ohio is now growing more Corn and Soybeans than we know what to do with

Our lives on Earth is such a nanosecond blink on an Earthly scale

Mother Earth will be just fine when our decayed flesh and fine sand bones will be the composition of soil when we're 6ft under a millenial from now.



.

You gonna be here in 100,000 years? I’m not. Obviously the earth has natural cycles and yes a single volcano can do way more damage then hundreds of years of human activity but what’s your point? Clearly humans are having a negative and measurable impact on the planet. But do we have the right to do so? We are not the only ones living here but as the only ones able to comprehend the idea of preservation it should be a common sense objective.

The questions we should be considering are how should we treat the ONLY world we have to live on, and do we have the right to leave it in poorer condition for future generations despite what we know? Do we really have the right to bulldoze habitat for our own gain and leave little for the other 99.99999999999% of species?

Sure in 1 million years there will likely be no trace of us and earth will look amazing again. But I won’t be here to see it. I’m here NOW and my daughter will be here TOMORROW. And we should do better.

GET A LARGER PERSPECTIVE

 

[ZoWhat]

You gonna be here in 100,000 years? I’m not. Obviously the earth has natural cycles and yes a single volcano can do way more damage then hundreds of years of human activity but what’s your point? Clearly humans are having a negative and measurable impact on the planet. But do we have the right to do so? We are not the only ones living here but as the only ones able to comprehend the idea of preservation it should be a common sense objective.

The questions we should be considering are how should we treat the ONLY world we have to live on, and do we have the right to leave it in poorer condition for future generations despite what we know? Do we really have the right to bulldoze habitat for our own gain and leave little for the other 99.99999999999% of species?

Sure in 1 million years there will likely be no trace of us and earth will look amazing again. But I won’t be here to see it. I’m here NOW and my daughter will be here TOMORROW. And we should do better.

GET A LARGER PERSPECTIVE

What do you think happened 500yrs ago when wildfires started in North America?

A great portion of North American vegetation BURNED TO THE SOIL...and YET! it alllll yes all rebounded

Dont get me wrong....we as humans have a responsibility to care for natural resources.... but not to the anal levels some take it to.

 

[daftwazzock]

It's always interesting in a sick way to see posters here who refuse to admit climate change is real.

We all know corals are super sensitive life forms and maintain the stability of their artificial habitat with lots of effort and knowledge.

Yet somehow human activity and pumping chemicals into the ocean and atmosphere has "LITTLE TO NO EFFECT" on the climate let alone the chemistry of the air and water of our planet right? Nope, the reefs are just naturally dying en masse, we have nothing to do with it

The cognitive dissonance on display by otherwise knowledgeable people gives me very little hope for the future.

 

[Jon Fishman]

Climate change is real....... I just don’t think the aqua-net boom of the 80’s is the reason for it.

It really seems like the vocal group of human-haters really think we should remove ourselves from the earth...... The batteries from your Prius aren’t going to make good fertilizer for your tomato garden after all........

I guess my great x25 grandkids will look back and say great x25 grand-pappy was a jerk because he didn’t ride his bike 1.5hrs each way in the snow to get to work every day

 

[sixty_reefer]

If the smoke ends up in the water it may fuel coral growth. But im no scientist.

Can’t see how the carbon dioxide would help the reef, plus all the toxic wast that has been burning.

 

[ZoWhat]

When the Global Apocalypse hits.... at least I wont have to mow the lawn anymore.

Time saver. Win win

 

[Jon Fishman]

When the Global Apocalypse hits.... at least I wont have to mow the lawn anymore.

Time saver. Win win

Mowing is counterproductive to ecology anyways

 

[daftwazzock]

Yes we're all gonna die as a human race as the Earth falls into the Sun bc I dont recycle my milk jugs.

Got it! Should be a great show to watch and experience

Guess the alternative is to live in a cave and go back to hunting and eating squirrels

No, humans are adaptable and resilient. We'll survive in some form or another- but the way things are going, being a hunter gatherer in a cave is not going to be viable.

The vast majority of Floridas reefs are gone, killed by rising temperatures and pollution from the peninsula being pumped into the ocean.

Unlike humans, corals are not adaptable or resilient. While they were never wiped out, certain extinction events like the Permian-triassic extinction reduced their diversity (tabulate and rugose corals) and extent significantly for a time.

At least today, we can preserve some biodiversity in our aquariums that would otherwise be lost.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Hi guys! This thread had remained civil as a discussion for a bit, but now is taking a downturn. I'm going to clear out a few posts that are obviously disrespectful and trolling. However, we need all of your help to keep this conversation within our community standards. Feel free to disagree (we get that there are lots of opinions on this topic), but do so without insulting others. Thanks!

 

[IslandLifeReef]

What do you think happened 500yrs ago when wildfires started in North America?

A great portion of North American vegetation BURNED TO THE SOIL...and YET! it alllll yes all rebounded

I’d like to see the documentation of the great 1520 wildfires. Was this documented in Native American history since it’s 87 years before the first colony in America, or is it just something you read on the internet?

 

[sde1500]

I’d like to see the documentation of the great 1520 wildfires. Was this documented in Native American history since it’s 87 years before the first colony in America, or is it just something you read on the internet?

I doubt he is referencing a specific event. I think it is widely accepted that forests had fires before we were around to fully document them. That being said, the ones happening there now are exceptional for sure. It isn't nearly as simple as pointing to climate change for them as there are many factors, including I'm sure poor resource management. Its what happens in the western US frequently. There are two options for forestry management, either done through clearing underbrush and managed logging, or fire. When some people fight against any sort of human management, well you get fires. The heat, dryness, and intensity is all likely affected by climate change though.

I don't think it would have much affect on the reefs though. Depending on what is burning, I'm sure more landlocked waters like lakes would be much more negatively affected by ash. Luckily the oceans are vast and hopefully would be able to dilute much of the fire runoff to a point it's negligible. As for reefs going forward, obviously it doesn't happen fast, but I'd expect to see reefs migrate almost, away from the equator. It serves to reason as they broadcast spawn, that corals that would have landed farther from the equator and died will now be able to settle on those areas as the water is now warm enough to support them. I hope this is true. I guess we will see.

 

[eschaton]

Obviously if you take the long view, the biosphere will recover from basically anything we throw at it. One estimate that I read suggested it will take approximately 20-40 million years for the Earth to recover from the effects of humans and return to full biodiversity. But recover it shall. I mean, if the biosphere survived the Permian Extinction, it can survive anything we throw at it.

Really, when it comes to conservation, we should not be thinking about our impact on the planet as a whole, so much as how we're hurting the welfare of countless animals (many of which are undoubtedly at least self-aware enough to know they're distressed/in pain) and making the world a far less interesting - or even welcoming - place for ourselves.

 

[Jase4224]

Obviously if you take the long view, the biosphere will recover from basically anything we throw at it. One estimate that I read suggested it will take approximately 20-40 million years for the Earth to recover from the effects of humans and return to full biodiversity. But recover it shall. I mean, if the biosphere survived the Permian Extinction, it can survive anything we throw at it.

Really, when it comes to conservation, we should not be thinking about our impact on the planet as a who;le, so much as how we're hurting the welfare of countless animals (many of which are undoubtedly at least self-aware enough to know they're distressed/in pain) and making the world a far less interesting - or even welcoming - place for ourselves.

I’m pretty sure I’ve read it could take 40million years for mega fauna to fully re populate, but I guess that’s an educated guess.

I absolutely agree that people seem to be missing the point, YES the earth has experienced incredible destructive events in the past.. some that caused mass extinctions even. But do we want to live on a crappy baron planet that looks like landfill with no bio diversity or do we want to live somewhere worth waking up to?

It blows my mind that people who appreciate a piece of the ocean in their home don’t feel a strong inclination to protect our home. That has been the biggest eye opener for me on this forum that some people here don’t connect the dots between our behaviour and damage to our oceans.. on a reef keeping forum. I didn’t expect that TBH.

If you don’t believe humans have impacted the climate, go to NSW/VIC and see for yourself. I grew up there and visited recently and it hits you.. the Murray Darling Basin has been cleared of natural habitat, the rivers re directed and sucked dry and natural flood plains dried up. All for crops. They grow almonds, rice, cotton, citrus, grain and grapes over a huge area that NEVER had consistent rainfall hence the tough drought resistant vegetation that naturally occurs there. And now it’s on fire. And it no longer floods. And the once a year dust storms are happening nearly weekly. My parents still live there. When you see Mallee trees dead on the side of the road you know the place is now inhospitable and I’m talking about a huge region.

So deny human caused climate change all you like you just haven’t seen it yet. Man I sound like a tree hugger in a combi van now.

 

[drawman]

The Earth is changing argument is true...but it's really the RATE of change that matters. Yes, cataclysmic events happen but there are generally stable times in between them. Not sure that our impact is moving towards stability at the moment. Species adapt but at a certain point there can be too many pressures. Here is one more vote for a sustainable population.

 

[S2G]

Cost = taxes = taxpayer resources. No one can afford to pay more taxes. Solar has come down, dramatically, in the last 10 years. 10 years from now, I bet it’s less than natural gas. Storage is the other problem. Solar, alone, can’t take care of things for us. We need some major advancements in storage as well.

10 years from now will be a very different game as far as electrical power goes.

I think your the only other person ive ran across online with this logical view point. Arguing over a problem without having a viable solution is pointless.

 

[eschaton]

Population control isn't really what we need to do in order to reduce our impact - economic growth control is.

I mean, outside of Africa, population growth globally has mostly tailed off, with very few countries now having more than two kids per family. Much of Asia, North Africa, and Latin America are very close to having a number of kids below the replacement rate.

But the amount of stuff we consume is related strongly to how rich we are. Someone in China whose standard of living doubles over the course of their live impacts the planet as a whole way, way more than one more destitute child being born in Africa. I mean so many of the global ecological issues stem from the increasing wealth of China resulting in greater demand for things used in Traditional Chinese Medicine (rhino horn, tiger *****, etc). Even something as simple as peasants having a higher standard of living and eating more meat has a big impact, because it generally takes about ten times the resources to grow a calorie of meat versus a calorie of plant matter.

People don't like thinking about this, because everyone wants to do better over the course of their life, and wants their kids (if they have them) to do even better than they do. But ultimately unless we have dramatic reduction in population, or some big technological breakthroughs, economic growth is going to have to end.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I don’t think that we’ll ever agree on the cause of rising temperatures, nor agree on a solution that would actually affect them.

We CAN stop dumping trash and human waste into our water. There’s no excuse for being trashy.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

Population control isn't really what we need to do in order to reduce our impact - economic growth control is.

I mean, outside of Africa, population growth globally has mostly tailed off, with very few countries now having more than two kids per family. Much of Asia, North Africa, and Latin America are very close to having a number of kids below the replacement rate.

But the amount of stuff we consume is related strongly to how rich we are. Someone in China whose standard of living doubles over the course of their live impacts the planet as a whole way, way more than one more destitute child being born in Africa. I mean so many of the global ecological issues stem from the increasing wealth of China resulting in greater demand for things used in Traditional Chinese Medicine (rhino horn, tiger *****, etc). Even something as simple as peasants having a higher standard of living and eating more meat has a big impact, because it generally takes about ten times the resources to grow a calorie of meat versus a calorie of plant matter.

People don't like thinking about this, because everyone wants to do better over the course of their life, and wants their kids (if they have them) to do even better than they do. But ultimately unless we have dramatic reduction in population, or some big technological breakthroughs, economic growth is going to have to end.

Wait, you are suggesting that we just need to live like we are poor? Not even the animal kingdom would do this.

 

[eschaton]

Wait, you are suggesting that we just need to live like we are poor? Not even the animal kingdom would do this.

I'm saying that our impact on the planet is not solely based upon how many of us there are, but also how many resources every one of us consumes. A lot of this is related to wealth, though in general humans are just pretty wasteful creatures - the average American, for example, throws away around 30%-40% of their food without having eaten it. So a lot could be done by just being smarter with consumption of things.

Still, we literally do not have enough resources globally for every person on Earth to be even middle class. It would take the resources of four earths to bring everyone up to U.S. consumption levels, for example. So at some point we'll have to decide what is a reasonable global standard of consumption and not exceed it.

 

[WVNed]

Telling people they are stupid and calling them names has not been found to be an extremely effective way to win friends and influence people.

Instead of intelligent discourse, hair is set on fire and running in circles screaming commences.

You have a vital mission but you are going about it all wrong IMHO.

You not having well educated children to pass the cause on to but letting them be replaced by people
who are happy just to have a roof over their head and a stable food supply so they make 30 kids isn't going to work. People that don't have kids don't really care what is going to happen to your kids in the next century.

Books have been replaced by clickbait you can take anywhere on your phone but teaches you nothing.
Tech is turning into magic.
You are throwing away cell phones, batteries and other complex things almost as fast as past generations threw away pop bottles.

I am of the save the whales generation. They are still being hunted.
Then it was save the rain forests. They are burning.
Green energy is a farce. It will never attain a density able to sustain our current lifestyle. Nuclear would work but I watched that die.
How much energy was consumed by writing a book and putting it in a library as opposed to the internet.

I often wonder at things like what will have more long term impact. Co2 or concentrated lithium in landfills from batteries or methane release from biodegradables in landfills.
An electric car still has to be powered.
You can burn something
or absorb an amount of sunlight that would enable some number of square feet of the Earth to live
or some amount of energy from wind that drives the weather somewhere.
or dam a river which changes the environment.


We aren't making intelligent informed decisions. As a matter of fact the current culture seems designed to prevent that.

People are getting wealthy and gaining power by keeping us screaming at each other. I expect that is what we will continue to do. Perhaps that was really their goal in the first place.