Carib Sea Arag-ALive Fiji Pink Substrate?!

[Howard1234a]

I see this differently. I believe that this is a combination of issues. I think dissolved organic compounds are the issue. They don't have to show up on a test to be a problem. Your sand bed is a great plus; not a minus. It is so efficient that when you add extra food, or reef fuel, etc the sand bed and live rock eat everything you give them that is not dissolved. A few thoughts:

You said your water changes all came from the sump. If that is the case; you need to use a gravel vacuum on the sand and suck out all of the dark built up organics. I would suck all of the sand clean including the sand under your rocks. I do this every week. I change 25% weekly. Once a year, I remove every rock and every coral. From there, I suck the sand clean until only clean water comes up. It can require you to add more water several times.

I noticed no hermits. Buy a pack of cleaners maybe 30 hermits, 30 snails.

Flow could be off. Add another powerhead.

Are you skimming? If you are; is it pulling out as much as it should be? Can you photo the collection cup?

 

[brandon429]

100% agree, hands off sandbed technique, and too deep a bed per the actual physical turnover activity from the keeper, not tiny animals, is the cause of the diatoms issue and the clumping. We get to stay very very busy on reef correction/saving threads where hands off sandbeds abound. stored organics anywhere in the reef are what contribute to massive loss cascades/greatly reduced in non detritus storing designs.

the old techniques sure need updating. deep sandbeds are seemingly fine left totally alone and OTS manifestation from it simply ranges.

oppositely, I flip my entire sandbed top to bottom occasionally...its so clean and free of organics that's possible and is of no cycle risk. we treat 6 inch deep sandbeds very differently than the masses, making our tanks immune to OTS, clumping, and typical sandbed issues of ten thousand searchable threads. hands off doesn't work well in nanos relative to export/input/age variables, again well documented.

Fiji pink if marked nicely on sale will always be my go to sand, and at any time in any tank its in if you inspect the depths of the sandbed, you find clean sand and no clumping, repeatably.

to me the thread is about sandbed care and OTS prevention more than a specific brand.

 

[Birddog]

I see this differently. I believe that this is a combination of issues. I think dissolved organic compounds are the issue. They don't have to show up on a test to be a problem. Your sand bed is a great plus; not a minus. It is so efficient that when you add extra food, or reef fuel, etc the sand bed and live rock eat everything you give them that is not dissolved. A few thoughts:

You said your water changes all came from the sump. If that is the case; you need to use a gravel vacuum on the sand and suck out all of the dark built up organics. I would suck all of the sand clean including the sand under your rocks. I do this every week. I change 25% weekly. Once a year, I remove every rock and every coral. From there, I suck the sand clean until only clean water comes up. It can require you to add more water several times.

I noticed no hermits. Buy a pack of cleaners maybe 30 hermits, 30 snails.

Flow could be off. Add another powerhead.

Are you skimming? If you are; is it pulling out as much as it should be? Can you photo the collection cup?

For me, pretty hard to remove all rock and coral. Skimmer collection is a dark brown and I probably have no less than 150 snails in a 65g reef. @NanaReefer, just curious and was thinking... I think I read you dose two part and that's it. Do you have an auto dose unit or do you dose manually, what time of day and how many times a day?

 

[charleslotz]

100% agree, hands off sandbed technique, and too deep a bed per the actual physical turnover activity from the keeper, not tiny animals, is the cause of the diatoms issue and the clumping. We get to stay very very busy on reef correction/saving threads where hands off sandbeds abound. stored organics anywhere in the reef are what contribute to massive loss cascades/greatly reduced in non detritus storing designs.

the old techniques sure need updating. deep sandbeds are seemingly fine left totally alone and OTS manifestation from it simply ranges.

oppositely, I flip my entire sandbed top to bottom occasionally...its so clean and free of organics that's possible and is of no cycle risk. we treat 6 inch deep sandbeds very differently than the masses, making our tanks immune to OTS, clumping, and typical sandbed issues of ten thousand searchable threads. hands off doesn't work well in nanos relative to export/input/age variables, again well documented.

Fiji pink if marked nicely on sale will always be my go to sand, and at any time in any tank its in if you inspect the depths of the sandbed, you find clean sand and no clumping, repeatably.

to me the thread is about sandbed care and OTS prevention more than a specific brand.

Perfectly said..... And I agree for nano tanks( smaller tanks) were you'r able to flip the sand bed top to bottom and release the detritus... Personly I have a large tank and cannot see myself doing this consistently. I'm not advocation sand or BB , just suggest some reading as there are some good posts on the benefits and disadvantages of either options , but your approach by flipping a shallow sandbed is basically the same as BB , with the added benefits a sand bed offers. I do however humble disagree , if so many people are experiencing the same issues in different experiance levels perhaps there could be some measure to speculatively suggest that the product, has some bound organics or other factors promoting diatom growth. It would be to difficult to outrightly exclude this as I'm sure you can agree there are a host of factors that can contribute to this , from over feeding ,.. Nutrient export method , silicone leaching, presence of sponges and their growth etc etc etc etc...

 

[gcrawford]

I'm too busy watching my corals and fish to really care about the sand bed's appearance..... 3 years in, using Fiji Pink. I do remember wanting it to look like the sugar sands of Destin Fl, but I got over that quickly. With corals growing, most of my sandbed is now shaded or have softies sitting in the few sunny spots. My advice is not to worry about perfection and enjoy nature taking its course.

 

[inetjnky]

My diatoms have all but disappeared in my tank. You can see a slight tinge of brown still on the sand / rock but it's no where near as dark as it once was.

 

[brandon429]

my takeaway would be that large tanks with DSB's need to engineer a detrital prevention method so the takedown catchup isn't the only mode of control. for tiny tanks, that's easiest.

 

[NanaReefer]

Could be a bad batch of product. It happens! @brandon429 unless you are having the issue you cannot definitively say "it is no issue w CaribSea" that is your opinion. One which I disagree with. Seems others besides myself have been having the same experiences.
Besides the dusting this substrate is clumping badly. More common in newer SB, not so in beds 2-3yrs old. That speaks volumes in itself.
My sump/fuge area couldn't be any cleaner. If it were its purpose would be useless. I run a sock, changed weekly. Skimmer rated for tanks up to 65g, it is very efficient. I run a doser for 2prt.
My husbandry is well practiced after 6yrs of doing it. This is my 3rd setup. So I've some experience with SB and substrates.
I've never encountered this malady before. It's ugly! It makes my tank look bad. What reefer wouldn't want the issue fixed?

 

[brandon429]

sure that's possible to have a bad batch. its no problem to continue under the current settings, what we all do is a bunch of best attempts. I struggle to think of other changes that can be made, the thread seems to have detailed everything yet an invasion persists, and clumping, I couldn't see the current course working based on past setups. we show strong command over Fiji pink if old sandbed care methods are stopped

We can also find similar invasions with other sand types, such as Southdown play sand which ruled the nineties.

 

[NanaReefer]

Parameters very stable. ALK=9, Calc=440, Mag=1400, PH=8.2, Temp-78.9, No3=2 and PO4=undetectable, Silicates=0.

 

[charleslotz]

The only thing I can think of is that the sand has silica sand mixed in. This could be the cause and would create the endless diatoms believe the outer shell on diatoms are made up of silicate so silicate must be present for diatoms. I believe this to be correct but others can chime in if I am mistaken. Two main sorces are through rodi or sand. Rodi can easly be fixed, sand is a larger problem. Like others have said this is not a problem and I personly follow RH silicate dosing, as a preference I would rather have diatoms than other nuisance algue and my sponges grow like crazy. But saying this I don't have a sand bed and if I did I prefer a clean white sand bed.

Sand is inexpensive , I removed my sand as other have also done and the problem went away , ..if you decide to do this you can then replace with new sand.

 

[NanaReefer]

Frustrating as all heck!! This stuff just won't go away [emoji35] I've tried 30 days without a WC. Have tested for silicates, per Salifert they are undectable. Both tank water, reservoirs and RO/DI unit.
I have noticed that they diminish greatly during lights out. Plus worsen 3-4 days after a WC.
I removed top layer of sand my last change. Sand was whiter than snow. 4 days later white area is covered once again.
This is freaking ridiculous! So I'm just going to continue removing small amounts of sand over the next several months.
Tax return I'll be ordering something new & different. 2yrs is long enough of this crap!
I'm sad because of the diverse life living in my SB. Really like the Spaghetti Worms [emoji2]

 

[hatrix11]

Test the water change water the next time you mix it before you as it to tank. Silicates maybe absorbed by diatoms faster than can be tested. Also there are people who dose silicates so there is some good info out there. I think I've heared there's a relationship between iron an silicates. Also chemipure elite is supposed to absorb silicates. I'm not sure about any of what I just said lol but wanted to throw that out there.

 

[saltyphish]

I have removed all the Fiji pink from my tank. Hated it. Not from dino or diatoms. I had major cyano issues

 

[brandon429]

did a test last month, held the pic pending updates here

little clump on top bed when allowed to get high in organics after some feeding and lazy water change two weeks, clumping and top growth occurs across beds, not just Fiji pink:

Bed is now free of clumps after full cleaning.

Being able to replicate the issue and correct it on demand lends some credit to the notion that hands off sandbeds in nanos causes various issues that range among tanks

Given any longer, see the golden hue developing in the pic above the sand? Fiji pink isn't the issue, it's the mode of tank export that is lacking. Cleaning a partial amount of the bid in reaction isn't the same as total preemptive cleaning. After a larger clean out the system will shine, and it might be needed again shortly after these are cyclic events imo. Doing any manner of regular cleaning preventatively extends time in between thorough cleans imo, for certain control over any invader. It may also subside naturally given time as well.

After manual cleaning:

This particular invader isn't bad among them, can easily cycle out in time.

 

[brandon4432]

Given I've had no success with curing the horrible sand issue over the last month even with a very positive water change schedule, and nutrient output system I will be taking my Fiji Pink out and replacing it with ocean direct sand. I have concluded that it is a problem with the substrate that cannot be cured. Unfortunately taking the sand out and replacing it is a grueling task. Wish me luck

 

[charleslotz]

Unfortunately , as many have experienced this is the only solution that works,... Remove it.... As this is a real conundrum , it would be awesome if someone from the chemical forum would volenteer to take a sample and test it for silicone thereby we can actually get a factual answer with proof.... To me it's beyond coincidence of other factors that so many are having the same issue with the same sand...

On the previous post , This is also something I have been thinking about ,... Is there not a brown cyno bacteria as well as red ? Sure I read this someware...


Anyway would be awesome to get some facts , to help others dispel the myth or prevent its use , unless of coarse you want the silicates present....

 

[BryanS4]

Surprised to read about people having problems with this sand.

I've had this in my main display for over a year with zero issues. I've never touched it and it's as clean as can be, nothing like some of the pictures attached. I also use regular IO.

I highly doubt the sand is the cause of the problems. Something else has to be driving the issues at hand.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed Bryan, I'm literally stating it's been a decade Fiji was my go to sand



My sand above is ocean direct, demonstrated clumping. Fiji pink was every other reef so far the examples in the thread have been well covered. Cyano never has to take over regardless of salt brand or sand type- begin some export and cleaning work

Anything you do differently should be the preventative of regrowth, not the initial mass remover that's the cleaning part.

 

[NanaReefer]

There is absolutely NO signs of this "stuff" present anywhere else in my tank aside from the SB. It's not even in my sump, where I used a different non-live CaribSea.
ALL water used has been tested for Silicates, results are undetectable.
I dose BRS 2part via a doser and nothing else. I feed LRS Reef Frenzy 2x daily and nothing else.
Whether I do WC 1x monthly or 1x bi-weekly @ 5g per change of 47g total volume, the reaction is the same.
Lighting intensity has changed over the past year and a half but this "stuff" remains the same. But does seem to diminish when lights are off.
I wash filter socks in washing machine 10 at a time, large load using half cup of bleach double rinse. Air dry for several weeks before using. Socks are changed every 7-10 days.
I've treated tank once with ChemiClean, it had no effect at all.
I've deep cleaned small areas but "stuff" returns within days. Disturbing the SB will distribute the "stuff" but it returns within days.

So yes I believe it to be 100% an issue with this particular batch of CaribSea Arag-Live Fiji Pink. Nothing else explains it.