CRYING, VELVET, HELP

[RELLIK-REEF]

Ok that was a frickin pain....
Chase and chase and a little more chasing and yup some more chasing then I remembered red light. I shut the lights off on the system went to override used only red and caught everyone within 5 minutes. Great trick. Only broke off 1 frag from its plug too. I felt so bad that I was stressing them out even more.
Didn't really have anything for hides so I made them something.

Here goes the trials.
-Everyone dipped in freshwater 4 minutes
-Everyone played dead except the Clown Tang
-Everyone now in QT

-Should I try to feed right away or wait until tomorrow before a water change?

 

[Vested]

Ok that was a frickin pain....
Chase and chase and a little more chasing and yup some more chasing then I remembered red light. I shut the lights off on the system went to override used only red and caught everyone within 5 minutes. Great trick. Only broke off 1 frag from its plug too. I felt so bad that I was stressing them out even more.
Didn't really have anything for hides so I made them something.

Here goes the trials.
-Everyone dipped in freshwater 4 minutes
-Everyone played dead except the Clown Tang
-Everyone now in QT

-Should I try to feed right away or wait until tomorrow before a water change?

Wait to feed, with such new QT’s (im assuming no biological media) you will have near zero bacteria to handle the ammonia.

 

[Spare time]

Dump a whole big bottle of cycling bacteria in there with some sponges.

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

Even with treating with cupramine?
I will be doing daily water changes. I was told I should change it out with my DT water then add new water to the DT. This would give water changes on both. Then the parameters should always be the same for the fish. Is this not correct?

 

[Spare time]

Even with treating with cupramine?
I will be doing daily water changes. I was told I should change it out with my DT water then add new water to the DT. This would give water changes on both. Then the parameters should always be the same for the fish. Is this not correct?

Yes, soak some sponge or plastic biomedia with bacteria regardless. For reference, bio-spira, microbacter xlm, fritz turbo, and dr tims tend to be the most concentrated that I know of.

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

Yes, soak some sponge or plastic biomedia with bacteria regardless. For reference, bio-spira, microbacter xlm, fritz turbo, and dr tims tend to be the most concentrated that I know of.

Are you saying filter sponge?
Sorry I'm confused. I have that in my dt that I use to defuse bubbles from the skimmer would that work? Not a whole lot of room in this filter for it though.

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

Sorry not in the dt it's in the sump. Just to clarify.

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

So this sponge and what about the bags? The sponge I can put under the little huts I made right? Dump the bag into the back of the filter?

 

[Hungrypede]

Even with treating with cupramine?
I will be doing daily water changes. I was told I should change it out with my DT water then add new water to the DT. This would give water changes on both. Then the parameters should always be the same for the fish. Is this not correct?

That would constantly reintroduce the ich in the DT to the QT. For water changes to the QT do new saltwater. Put the saltwater in a bucket (that will for here on out only be used for QT) and add copper to that bucket before adding to the QT.

So this sponge and what about the bags? The sponge I can put under the little huts I made right? Dump the bag into the back of the filter?

Yes, cut off some of the sponge and put into the filter to introduce bacteria and reduce ammonia. I’d also recommend a seachem ammonia alert badge.

Copper levels should stabilize, but you should test every few days during your fallow.

 

[jmichaelh7]

That would constantly reintroduce the ich in the DT to the QT. For water changes to the QT do new saltwater. Put the saltwater in a bucket (that will for here on out only be used for QT) and add copper to that bucket before adding to the QT.

Yes, cut off some of the sponge and put into the filter to introduce bacteria and reduce ammonia. I’d also recommend a seachem ammonia alert badge.

Copper levels should stabilize, but you should test every few days during your fallow.

I was going to say , your restarting your QT over every time you pull display water into quarantine .

I am following. Your fish look bad , and I want to know if they pull through. Sorry for the situation.

 

[Hungrypede]

Just noticed that you have all the fish in the one tank. On top of the sponge in the filter I would sacrifice one of those media bags for the QT. Some will say they’ll absorb copper, but it should be minimal. Get that bacteria load high off the start to avoid ammonia.

Keep the power head high in the tank/pointed slightly upward to promote gas exchange.

Get the heater hanging vertical. The fish might want to space out and it’s taking up some valuable real estate in the bottom corner.

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

Just noticed that you have all the fish in the one tank. On top of the sponge in the filter I would sacrifice one of those media bags for the QT. Some will say they’ll absorb copper, but it should be minimal. Get that bacteria load high off the start to avoid ammonia.

Keep the power head high in the tank/pointed slightly upward to promote gas exchange.

Get the heater hanging vertical. The fish might want to space out and it’s taking up some valuable real estate in the bottom corner.

Yes they are all in one tank right now because I was in a hurry to try and save them. The petco had the tanks but only 1 filter so I decided to come home and get this going. I will be looking for another filter, heater, and air pump tomorrow.
I thought the same thing about the water change but the local pet store that had the copper told me to do it that way. I even asked to clarify and he said yes but this is why I ask here to get answers from people that care not ones trying to sell fish. I won't say he's wrong because his theory made sense. If they are spores that have fallen off then they shouldn't be able to reattach during the copper treatment. I still was leaning towards just new water. I have plenty ready always perfect temp and salinity so there is no need to not give them the best I can.
I hung the heater, placed the sponge under the huts and placed one bag in the top hut so water passes through it. I forgot the Ammonia badge today but I'll pick one up tomorrow morning.

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

Yes they are all in one tank right now because I was in a hurry to try and save them. The petco had the tanks but only 1 filter so I decided to come home and get this going. I will be looking for another filter, heater, and air pump tomorrow.
I thought the same thing about the water change but the local pet store that had the copper told me to do it that way. I even asked to clarify and he said yes but this is why I ask here to get answers from people that care not ones trying to sell fish. I won't say he's wrong because his theory made sense. If they are spores that have fallen off then they shouldn't be able to reattach during the copper treatment. I still was leaning towards just new water. I have plenty ready always perfect temp and salinity so there is no need to not give them the best I can.
I hung the heater, placed the sponge under the huts and placed one bag in the top hut so water passes through it. I forgot the Ammonia badge today but I'll pick one up tomorrow morning.

Also moved the powerhead up a little closer to the top it had good movement plus the breakwater from the filter. I can't really point it up no swiveling this little thing, sits flat just like an MP.

I was going to say , your restarting your QT over every time you pull display water into quarantine .

I am following. Your fish look bad , and I want to know if they pull through. Sorry for the situation.

Yeah this one is pretty rough. But I guess we will see how everyone is doing in the morning. The clowns were just doing their normal, keeping to themselves but no different than they were a month ago. Always seem happy. The Naso and Clown tang are moving around like normal too but both of the Valmingis are very slow and just very stressed looking right now.

I want to thank everyone for the help and good thoughts for these little fish.
Hoping and wishing for the best. I'll update first thing in the morning.

Goodnight and thanks again......

 

[JumboShrimp]

So your DT will be going fallow, correct? Just be very careful not to cross-contaminate it all over again with nets, air stones—even your hands—as you work back and forth from your new QTs. We’re pulling for you!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

according to what he said ramp it up to therapeutic dose (.5ppm) over a 48 hour period for velvet only

I need to clarify - that isn't good information! Velvet can kill fish faster than that. Once the fish are showing symptoms, and especially since a fish has already died from the disease, copper has to be ramped up immediately (but accurately) - but even then it may not be fast enough.

Using a good test kit (Hanna tester is best) you add a half dose of copper to the QT and let it circulate for an hour or two. then, test the tank and add the exact amount of copper needed to bring it up to a full dose.

The problem is, people can't easily differentiate between gill disease and copper toxicity. What happens is they slowly9 add copper and the fish dies.....so they say it must have been the copper, when actually it was the uncontrolled disease.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So the only aquarium store around me only had cupramine available.

In all honesty the are breathing so fast its kind of hard to count but in 15seconds I'd say around 40 breaths so that would be around 160.

That's right in the overlap range between severe ich and velvet. Either way, starting copper right away is the only course of action that I can see. Even overnight, there may well have been additional losses.

Jay

 

[RELLIK-REEF]

Good morning, and a good morning it is. Everyone pulled through the night. I'm going to change water around 4 to stay on the same schedule every day.

So your DT will be going fallow, correct? Just be very careful not to cross-contaminate it all over again with nets, air stones—even your hands—as you work back and forth from your new QTs. We’re pulling for you!

Yes it will be going fallow. I will not be doing much with either dt for a while hopefully. They each have their own equipment so everything I have used on this QT will stay with it.
Thank you for the encouragement.

I need to clarify - that isn't good information! Velvet can kill fish faster than that. Once the fish are showing symptoms, and especially since a fish has already died from the disease, copper has to be ramped up immediately (but accurately) - but even then it may not be fast enough.

Using a good test kit (Hanna tester is best) you add a half dose of copper to the QT and let it circulate for an hour or two. then, test the tank and add the exact amount of copper needed to bring it up to a full dose.

The problem is, people can't easily differentiate between gill disease and copper toxicity. What happens is they slowly9 add copper and the fish dies.....so they say it must have been the copper, when actually it was the uncontrolled disease.

Jay

Thank you for all your time, I really do appreciate all the knowledge and input you have towards helping others. Hopefully these guys can all pull through.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Keeping it up! we are all rooting for you!!

 

[czoolander]

@Jay Hemdal

I was wondering your thoughts on how I QT lately. I have not been able to get copper products or prazi in Canada. I do still QT all my fish for a minimum of 30 days however there is nothing in the water.

My question would be would velvet or ich be dormant during this time and possibly still be introduced to my display . Or would 30 days be enough that it would show up on the fish if it was present?

I am not currently QTing any fish and all the fish in my display are healthy and doing well for months so I am to assume there is no ich or velvet in my display currently .

I am wanting to purchase a purple tang and Lineatus wrasse in 3-4 months at probably a combined cost of around $700 so I want to make sure my current plan of just a 30 day QT no treatment is good enough ?

I did this method for my last two additions Adorned Wrasse and Common Clownfish . Did I just get lucky ? Or is 30 days and just observation good enough to see if they have ich or velvet .

I would dose copper and prazi if I could get it in Canada. kinda frustrating .......

Thanks !

 

[jmichaelh7]

If you were using prime

@Jay Hemdal

I was wondering your thoughts on how I QT lately. I have not been able to get copper products or prazi in Canada. I do still QT all my fish for a minimum of 30 days however there is nothing in the water.

My question would be would velvet or ich be dormant during this time and possibly still be introduced to my display . Or would 30 days be enough that it would show up on the fish if it was present?

I am not currently QTing any fish and all the fish in my display are healthy and doing well for months so I am to assume there is no ich or velvet in my display currently .

I am wanting to purchase a purple tang and Lineatus wrasse in 3-4 months at probably a combined cost of around $700 so I want to make sure my current plan of just a 30 day QT no treatment is good enough ?

I did this method for my last two additions Adorned Wrasse and Common Clownfish . Did I just get lucky ? Or is 30 days and just observation good enough to see if they have ich or velvet .

I would dose copper and prazi if I could get it in Canada. kinda frustrating .......

Thanks !

You should start your own thread bud.