Fungus/Tail Rot/Nothing? - Blue Tang in QT

[tutmatt3]

Thank you both very much! I gave it a good shake in my wc water I was dumping.

Last water change I ran it under the sink, and now I'm pretty certain that was the contributor to the cloudy water problem I was having that finally went away

Now I have cloudy water again, but that was from the selcon, so I'm much more relaxed this time

 

[tutmatt3]

So here is an interesting QT question, which I'm already sure the answer of (QT everything wet!) - is QT for clean up crew ultimately necessary?
I understand that yes ich eggs can live on the shells, just like it can live on a frag plug, but is it common practice to set up a new QT for CUC??

Wouldn't they starve in a qt setting unless it had their necessary diet (algae, etc)

Any other suggestions besides setting up a QT for these guys, but to reduce ICH chances.

 

[melypr1985]

is QT for clean up crew ultimately necessary?
I understand that yes ich eggs can live on the shells, just like it can live on a frag plug, but is it common practice to set up a new QT for CUC??

Yes! I have a frag tank running all the time for corals anyway, so my CUC goes in there as well. I have a square tile that I tie nori or a silver side to occasionally to feed them.

 

[tutmatt3]

Yes! I have a frag tank running all the time for corals anyway, so my CUC goes in there as well. I have a square tile that I tie nori or a silver side to occasionally to feed them.

Well, I guess I'll have to start looking into a frag tank of I want to take this qt thing serious
Since I'm running fallow, I can at least be 90% safe introducing them right now for the remainder, which is roughly 8 weeks

 

[Maritimer]

Just keep in mind that technically, the "fallow clock" restarts at 76 days from the last un-quarantined introduction.

~Bruce

 

[melypr1985]

Just keep in mind that technically, the "fallow clock" restarts at 76 days from the last un-quarantined introduction.

~Bruce

Exactly

 

[tutmatt3]

Copy that!

Update on the tang: looks like lymph building up more, both on the tail & the tip @ the bottom before the tail.

I've been dosing food in vitamins for 1 week now. I know that's too soon to see results, but looks like it has only grown since I acquired the tank 3-4 weeks ago. and hasn't shown signs of reducing, only growing/expanding

All that's in the water now is the copper. Pima/Mela are now out after a 100% WC to pull it (14 day trial period over). I know copper can still stress the fish, so that's a possibility. Tank params have been great in QT, and there is no bullying at all w/ the clowns.
Been feeding 1/4 a cube of frozen 'complete herbivore health feeder feast' every day, after soaking in Selcon. (tank also dosed w/ selcon). Still looking a bit skinny as well.

Anything else I can be doing? I considered the 'razor blade' move - but just not going to risk it.

On occasion, the tang will 'flash' downwards, as if trying to shake something off - my assumptions the lump. Looks as if an annoyance since it appears to 'weight the tail down'

Thanks guys!

E: Also got in a piece of seaweed soaked in selcom rubber banded to some pcv pipe. This can help ya? & that won't cause any ammonia issues leaving it, right?
it was dried seaweed
Thanks

 

[Maritimer]

Like the chicken pox or the common cold in humans, Lymphocystis will run its course - and as long as the tang's in good conditions (sounds as though you're working hard on that!) shouldn't be much trouble in the future.

A bit of nori on a pipe shouldn't cause too much in the way of ammonia ... remove any leftovers after a few hours. (In my tank, that's not a problem ... there are simply no leftovers!)

~Bruce

 

[tutmatt3]

Like the chicken pox or the common cold in humans, Lymphocystis will run its course - and as long as the tang's in good conditions (sounds as though you're working hard on that!) shouldn't be much trouble in the future.

A bit of nori on a pipe shouldn't cause too much in the way of ammonia ... remove any leftovers after a few hours. (In my tank, that's not a problem ... there are simply no leftovers!)

~Bruce

Ok cool. So it sounds like one of those "it'll get worse before it gets better" kinda deals

Thanks

 

[tutmatt3]

Updates on the lil one. So it seemed to have been getting worse, way worse, even with selcon on the thawed frozen food. I got a suction cup & plastic clip, then started adding seaweed sheets w/ selcon on it, and literally day after day I see it MUCH better!
So yesterday I did a 50% WC w/ medicated water, then noticed an hour later that the copper was slightly low (maybe 1ppm), so I increased & it's back @ 2. She was breathing quite heavy, which I believed was due to the scare of the WC, and PCV pipes moving around.

Well today, she's all calmed down, but has this giant white spot. Would you guys say, ICH, or Lymph on the body (thought it was mainly on fins)
So far copper has been in the tank for 18x days. Should I extend my copper treatment instead of 1 month total and go 1x month from last sign of ich? Or only carry it until the end of the month as planned?

I didn't think ich would really show it self 2-3 weeks after beginning treatment, but it sure is proving me wrong if it is it.

 

[Humblefish]

The spot on the body is probably just Lympho (like it is on the fins); however the fact that you allowed your Cu level to drop to 1ppm is worrisome.

Coppersafe needs to be maintained at 1.5-2.0 ppm for 30 consecutive days in order to be sure the job is done right.

 

[tutmatt3]

The spot on the body is probably just Lympho (like it is on the fins); however the fact that you allowed your Cu level to drop to 1ppm is worrisome.

Coppersafe needs to be maintained at 1.5-2.0 ppm for 30 consecutive days in order to be sure the job is done right.

Ok Thanks. Should I restart the 30 day clock? Does copper loose it's concentration while in the Tank? I don't have rocks or substrate, just bare bottom & 3x pcv

I also treat all replacement water w/ the correct dosage of CU. It was slightly higher than 1ppm, but def not 2ppm when read yesterday after water replacement.

(Do you measure w/ the api test kit with the tube on the paper, or floating above?)
And last question - since I plan on treating all 3x fish with prazi as well, is that safe to combine w/ copper or wait until all 30 days are done followed by a 100% WC?

 

[Humblefish]

Ok Thanks. Should I restart the 30 day clock? Does copper loose it's concentration while in the Tank? I don't have rocks or substrate, just bare bottom & 3x pcv

Coppersafe is pretty stable unless it is being absorbed by something. I would restart the 30 day clock and test frequently to ensure your Cu level always remains above 1.5 ppm.

(Do you measure w/ the api test kit with the tube on the paper, or floating above?)
And last question - since I plan on treating all 3x fish with prazi as well, is that safe to combine w/ copper or wait until all 30 days are done followed by a 100% WC?

When using the API test kit, you want to put the vial directly on the white part of the color chart and look from above. Viewing outside (with indirect sunlight) can sometimes help you to see the color.

You can safely mix Prazipro with copper; just be sure the water doesn't become too cloudy (bacterial bloom) and be prepared to do a WC if it does.

 

[tutmatt3]

Coppersafe is pretty stable unless it is being absorbed by something. I would restart the 30 day clock and test frequently to ensure your Cu level always remains above 1.5 ppm.



When using the API test kit, you want to put the vial directly on the white part of the color chart and look from above. Viewing outside (with indirect sunlight) can sometimes help you to see the color.

You can safely mix Prazipro with copper; just be sure the water doesn't become too cloudy (bacterial bloom) and be prepared to do a WC if it does.

Cool, I'll observe this white spec and see if it becomes cauliflower like or if more salt like pieces develop.

I'll test every 2x days or so for CU
I'll leave them to adjust today, and begin prazi tomorrow. Let me see if I have this right:

1) Copper Day 1 starts Today: March 18
2) Tomorrow, Dose 2.5ml Prazi for 10gal QT
3) 1x Week after Prazi, (Feb 26), do a 25% WC w/ pre-treated copper (test water before & after changing), redose 2.5ml Prazi in Tank
4) 1x Week after 2nd Prazi (Mar 5), do a 25% WC w/ pre-treated Copper
5) March 20 (30 days after Copper day 1), do a 90-100% WC, replace carbon, & observe for 2x weeks

Sound about right?
Also, during the 2x week observation period, would it be recommended to slowly bring up the temp to a tolerable temperature for the fish, to 'stress' them on purpose & see if ICH would reveal itself again, or is that just unnecessary?

Thanks!

 

[Humblefish]

Sound about right?
Also, during the 2x week observation period, would it be recommended to slowly bring up the temp to a tolerable temperature for the fish, to 'stress' them on purpose & see if ICH would reveal itself again, or is that just unnecessary?

Sounds good except:

• I would only treat with prazi 2x, not 3x
• If you are making your own stock solution of praziquantel, then 2.0 mg/L is the proper dosage. Prazipro's 2.5 mg/L is slightly overdosed and it is not necessary to expose fish to that high of a dose.

 

[tutmatt3]

Sounds good except:

• I would only treat with prazi 2x, not 3x
• If you are making your own stock solution of praziquantel, then 2.0 mg/L is the proper dosage. Prazipro's 2.5 mg/L is slightly overdosed and it is not necessary to expose fish to that high of a dose.

Correct, 2x times total
And sorry i meant 2.5ml total for the 10 gal tank

 

[tutmatt3]

Wow.. selcon directly on Seaweed & left to graze is doing wonders!!! Only 4x days of doing so, and look at that glorious tail!!!
Back on to the white spots now, the her other side now has 2x white dots (see picture 1), and the one from yesterday is not as prominent (picture 2).
Definitely happy to restart the CU clock at 0 again. Would it be wise to go 30 days from the last sign of ich? Or 30 days total should suffice? If indeed ich..

Here's all 4x red circles sectioned off & levels boosted in photoshop. Sorry, pics of this lil guy is hard!

 

[Humblefish]

@tutmatt3 30 days of continuous therapeutic copper should get the job done; regardless of when the last ich trophonts were seen.

However, if you are still seeing trophonts 10 days after therapeutic copper has been achieved (and has been continuously maintained) then there's a problem.

 

[tutmatt3]

@tutmatt3 30 days of continuous therapeutic copper should get the job done; regardless of when the last ich trophonts were seen.

However, if you are still seeing trophonts 10 days after therapeutic copper has been achieved (and has been continuously maintained) then there's a problem.

Hmm ok. I'll be sure to keep a closer eye on levels this time.

One last question for now: If copper is in the tank, will that also mess results with API nitrite test? I'm reading nitrite right now (after a 50% WC yesterday), and want to know if this is similar to the ammonia test being invalid after copper is in the tank.
Thanks!

Edit: I'm thinking they have to be inaccurate, since it's reading 2-5ppm. (2x ammonia tags in the QT have always been 'safe')
I diluted 1 nitrite test w/ 50% fresh salt water, and mixed in 50% qt water, and the reading was exactly the same as 100% QT water for nitrite

 

[Humblefish]

One last question for now: If copper is in the tank, will that also mess results with API nitrite test? I'm reading nitrite right now (after a 50% WC yesterday), and want to know if this is similar to the ammonia test being invalid after copper is in the tank.

Yes, the presence of copper will yield false positives for ammonia, nitrite & nitrate liquid testing.