Going back to halide after 4+ years with LED

[cilyjr]

I went back a week ago! 2 150w HQI Phoenix 14k. Love the shimmer!

Wb. Were you using led? Keep us posted on whether you feel things start growing better.
The Phoenix 14k is what I'd use if I had a de setup. But they stopped se production some time back

Yea the Halids help heat house in winter and my heaters don't turn on as much when they are on.In summer chiller does run but not that much in winter

I never had need for a chiller as my tank is in a finished basement. Actually I was looking at the apex log and I had a point where my heaters didn't turn on for 8 days. The tank never gets over 79

 

[mcarroll]

Is that a German Blue digitata? Did you just get him or did you have him under LED's too?

 

[KJoFan]

When I made the decision to start up an sps dominant take I researched light quite a bit and it kept coming back to MH (w/Radium bulb) as the gold standard for sps, closely followed by T5. I ended up going MH and so happy I did. If nothing else, I love the fact that I can focus on other things like water quality and parameters and know my light is fine. Set it and forget it. No messing with spectrum, intensity, so on and so forth. Plus, I recently snagged 3 brand new Radium bulbs from a local reefer for $50. ;Woot

I dropped a good chunk of change on an led for my smaller IM40 and just am not sure I'm happy with it. I've never had the success with leds I've seen with MH and T5. I have a 6 bulb ATI fixture I just might have to put over the IM40. I will miss the sleekness of the led fixture though if I switch.

 

[Centerline]

It's been 7 months now and I'm happy I switched.
I did monthly comprison of the months I had halide to those from the previous year and electric usage was almost exactly the same (with the exception of a big spike this july. I'm guessing 24/7 central ac useage). Which was good to see.

I've been using Radiums and plan to switch to hamilton 14k the next time around to see how I like the bulb more than anything else.

It's anecdotal but I believe growth to be superior to the old led lights. I have a digi grow out contest for my local reef club in progress and I'll use these pictures as a point of intrest.

Yup, LEDs can be pretty tough to tune in for optimal growth. It appears that too many options and not a good understanding of what the corals really need can cause a lot of issues. I toasted a bunch a fairly expensive corals learning this the hard way. I have gotten pretty good growth from Hydra 52 HDs and I have some new Radion Gen 4s that I'm playing with now with high hopes of a successful tank. That being said I have a tank that I just broke down (upgrading it to 525 reefer) that I was running a Geissman Spectra over with two 250 Radiums and 4 ATI Blue+. The growth in that tank was absolutely amazing and zero fiddling with the lights. Before that a 180 that was packed with SPS - 3 250 Radiums and 8 T5s. So while I consider myself a lighting agnostic MHs are so easy to use and produce such excellent growth I find it very hard at times not to questions all the cash I have tied up in LEDs.

 

[Robert Vacchiano]

You can get 250watt 10 k 14 k or 20k for 15 dollars each and they have great color so replacement cost is not an issue and when using halides in winter time my heater does not run as much

 

[cilyjr]

Is that a German Blue digitata? Did you just get him or did you have him under LED's too?

Yes it is. And not that piece. that growth is April to Aug.
It's for a grow out contest my local club does.

 

[cilyjr]

@mcarroll good to see ya still tagging along. I find your comments insightful and well thought out!

 

[mcarroll]

Yes it is. And not that piece. that growth is April to Aug.
It's for a grow out contest my local club does.

That's my avatar photo – my first stony coral. I never had one under LED's though so I wondered about that crazy blue florescent color.

Anyone in your club growing it under LED?

 

[mcarroll]

It appears that too many options and not a good understanding of what the corals really need can cause a lot of issues.

1. The LED's your thinking about have all been designed with this "hyper-control trap" built in.
2. Too few people spend the $10-$15 on a basic light meter and guess at their setups.

This is the equivalent of driving a Lamborghini on vacation to a strange place without using a map – sure to get you good and lost, not so sure to get you to your destination. But at least you're lost IN STYLE.

(BTW, I also toasted a tank full of corals in my transition to LED.....lesson learned, but a little too late.)

Remember that this "hyper control" is not even close to universal on LED fixtures. I'd even suggest that it's more of a liability than a benefit – it's certainly not a required feature. Kessil designed their software with this fact in mind.

Personally I've never used a hyper-adjustable LED fixture on a tank I've run and I kinda doubt I will at this point – I don't see the attraction.

I have one DIY fixture that simply turns ON and OFF and one that has a simple sunrise/sunset dimming controller built into it.....that seems like MORE than enough controllability to me and the ON/OFF fixture is just fine too.

 

[Centerline]

1. The LED's your thinking about have all been designed with this "hyper-control trap" built in.
2. Too few people spend the $10-$15 on a basic light meter and guess at their setups.

This is the equivalent of driving a Lamborghini on vacation to a strange place without using a map – sure to get you good and lost, not so sure to get you to your destination. But at least you're lost IN STYLE.

(BTW, I also toasted a tank full of corals in my transition to LED.....lesson learned, but a little too late.)

Remember that this "hyper control" is not even close to universal on LED fixtures. I'd even suggest that it's more of a liability than a benefit – it's certainly not a required feature. Kessil designed their software with this fact in mind.

Personally I've never used a hyper-adjustable LED fixture on a tank I've run and I kinda doubt I will at this point – I don't see the attraction.

I have one DIY fixture that simply turns ON and OFF and one that has a simple sunrise/sunset dimming controller built into it.....that seems like MORE than enough controllability to me and the ON/OFF fixture is just fine too.

Ya, Man. Its really funny when you see people BSA growing and keeping some crazy exotic stuff under just reefbrights and then you have people like me investing thousands of dollars and getting "pretty good" results. I love it when people post wicked tanks with Chinese black box systems.

 

[mcarroll]

I love it when people post wicked tanks with Chinese black box systems.

+1

My least favorite kind of light, but makes the point!

Corals crave stability more than anything IMO.....generally speaking, they'll make do with mediocre numbers for light, water flow, nutrients and even mineral levels if they are stable.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

I don't really follow the logic of the heating argument. Whether you pay for the electricity on your heater or MH, the efficiency should be similar. As I understand it since heat loss is how electrical efficiency is calculated, an electric heater is necessarily 100% efficient. If you prefer MH to LED that's fair, but electricity from the heater isn't less efficient than from you MH so there's no loss by switching your heat sources in your home. I think if you leave your thermostat at the same temperature it's at now and switch to MH the heater will be on less, but the electric bill the same.

I am saying this as a person who believes LED lighting is the ONLY lighting for a reef but he makes PERFECT sense. I'd would MUCH rather be able to reduce heaters or remove them all-together and let the lights do the job. He is also correct about electricity; with 4-8 LED units you're still burning alot of electricity...these things use up to 170w per unit so I agree there.

Back to the heater, I have seen too many amazing tanks get destroyed because some piece of *$&# heater failed and blew up. It's a shame we have all this money in our systems and the weakest link could be some junk heater. I have yet to see a heater so reliable on the market that I could trust it never fails. I am always in favor of any chance to remove equipment out of the water (this is why I will pay the King's ransom for vortechs).

Good reefkeeping isn't about what lights you can afford, just go with what looks good to you. I use LED because I love the look of them, not because they make me a more "skilled" reefer. If you have success with MH then you would be nuts to move away. I am a big fan of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" when it comes to reefing. I have seen too many nice tanks with budget equipment to believe buying expensive stuff makes the impossible possible.

 

[bif24701]

1. The LED's your thinking about have all been designed with this "hyper-control trap" built in.
2. Too few people spend the $10-$15 on a basic light meter and guess at their setups.

This is the equivalent of driving a Lamborghini on vacation to a strange place without using a map – sure to get you good and lost, not so sure to get you to your destination. But at least you're lost IN STYLE.

(BTW, I also toasted a tank full of corals in my transition to LED.....lesson learned, but a little too late.)

Remember that this "hyper control" is not even close to universal on LED fixtures. I'd even suggest that it's more of a liability than a benefit – it's certainly not a required feature. Kessil designed their software with this fact in mind.

Personally I've never used a hyper-adjustable LED fixture on a tank I've run and I kinda doubt I will at this point – I don't see the attraction.

I have one DIY fixture that simply turns ON and OFF and one that has a simple sunrise/sunset dimming controller built into it.....that seems like MORE than enough controllability to me and the ON/OFF fixture is just fine too.

Kessil Logic is the Lights best feature for exactly these reasons. It ensures that no matter your choices the light will perform in a way that is beneficial to your corals. Though nothing but a meter can help you there, unless you start low and bring them up slow while watching the corals closely.

 

[cilyjr]

Stop led-ing my mh thread...j/k.

Like I said before, I think the biggest problem with LEDs is the lack of spread we are talking about lighting 1 step away from being lasers here with an optic to spread the light. So I think people arent willing to buy enough fixtures (probably because of price) to really get proper coverage. I think you need 6 over a 6x2x2 foot tank. That is if you're not going to supplement with t5.
My friend who has real success with led has 13 over his 7x3x3 tank.

And as mentioned above the other big issue is people adjusting the lights every two weeks I had set my lights a few months in and didn't change the program. That said the older models had fewer choices.

 

[bif24701]

Stop led-ing my mh thread...j/k.

Like I said before, I think the biggest problem with LEDs is the lack of spread we are talking about lighting 1 step away from being lasers here with an optic to spread the light. So I think people arent willing to buy enough fixtures (probably because of price) to really get proper coverage. I think you need 6 over a 6x2x2 foot tank. That is if you're not going to supplement with t5.
My friend who has real success with led has 13 over his 7x3x3 tank.

And as mentioned above the other big issue is people adjusting the lights every two weeks I had set my lights a few months in and didn't change the program. That said the older models had fewer choices.

Sorry[emoji854]

 

[mcarroll]

It's a shame we have all this money in our systems and the weakest link could be some junk heater. I have yet to see a heater so reliable on the market that I could trust it never fails.

I've used plain glass Marineland heaters since the mid 1990's and not had a failure like you're talking. I've sent a couple back for not working anymore....and they have hapily sent free replacements every time. (Their non-glass heaters were junk.....hence the recall.)

I think people abuse their heaters by using the cord as a handle and by running then dry repeatedly, etc. Heaters are definitely fragile and deserve utmost respect during care and handling. Keeping that in mind is all I've done for mine....nothing fancy.

I would be equally confident about Eheim's glass heaters. The rest have something to prove IMO.....may be fine, but I dunno. Very mixed experiences with all titanium heaters, for example. Okay, they're crush proof....but I have yet to see an old one in service and I've seen dozens of them die and/or start leaking voltage.

Stop led-ing my mh thread...j/k.

"Taking this thread back to LED's after 8 months with halide"

And if you don't like that then now we'll talk about heaters!

 

[cilyjr]

I need to admit to putting 2 sol blues back up! It's just for the "fun" features of led units. They now go "sunrise" then when MH turns on they ramp down to 0 then just before MH turn off they ramp back up to 100% then MH off then they "sunset" off. There is obviously a huge change when the 3 MH power off but I'm satisfied. They also do all the silly "moonight" stuff I was missing.

 

[TX_Punisher]

Had I went with t5. Not as sleek as led as far as open top appearance. I think in the next year or two we will start to see more hybrid type of systems with mh or t5 being the main light source

 

[Cully]

I'm throwing in the towel on my Radions. This was a good read. Thanks to all for the input. There can certainly be a great deal of snobbery in this hobby as there is with most niche hobbies. But it is what it is. Time, money, and circumstances change. I'm not as attentive Tommy tank as I once was. I feel this is a benefit regarding its stability and my tests agree. I've even had some chemistry lab tests confirm my test kit readings.

I've had 2 successful tanks under the Radions. My last one crashed as a result of an equipment failure and a big leak. My current tank just won't come around.

I do not hang my head in defeat. I still feel my prior successful LED tanks lacked the pop I was able to achieve with MH/T5 combinations. Perhaps it is a chink in my husbandry skills that LEDs exposed. But I'm going back, and looking forward to it. I would agree the modifiability of LEDs may actually be a hindrance. What's good to the eye, may not be good to the zooxantgelae in my tank. I was using the Coral Lab SPS setting for what it's worth.

Thanks again all for a good read. My Radions will soon be VERY expensive moon lights.

 

[mcarroll]

@Cully did you ever get a lux or PAR meter to help?