help with strenthening DIY stand

[davocean]

Hey Devocean I was hoping you would chime in here!

yeah I built the stand off rockets design but messed up the for the sump or I could not add the 2nd set of legs. it is wood glued and well as pocket screwed. then I added 4 L bracket for the side support. like I said not the best work I have done but it been doing great for over a year but now while I have it empty I want to beef it up and enclose + make it pretty for the GF most importantly eh? haha

if I was to redo it all over again I would do a 100% plywood stand and no 2x4s but I have this unless you expert wood working say it a very bad idea to skin this and use it I will keep it and work with what I have.

was looking at 3/4 Baltic birch ply but it $115 a 4x8 sheet oh my but did look nice tho...

I would totally keep what you have and skin it, it would be rock solid, and look pretty.
Shop around, birch sheets are less than $50 here, it would be hard to imagine a reason it would be so much more for you, try another box store, or better a lumber yard if any near.
Yes I remember now your sump issue back when, too bad, the doubled up legs going top to bottom would have made plenty strong, but really a ply skin added would be just as or maybe even more so

 

[davocean]

this is why i hate 2x stands. use plywood and a lot of wood glue. the glue is what holds everything together, not the screws. baltic birch is nice but i prefer red oak. i like the grain better and it cuts better.

Both work just fine, if designed properly and joined properly.
The 2x like rockets design is more forgiving for the average DIY guy IMO.

Red oak is inexpensive, but it's a bit dated for many when stained, and when painted you always see the hairs of the grain, some people don't mind that I guess but I'm not such a fan usually unless it's done really nice, but even then I still see that hair grain.

I do agree glue makes all the difference, many don't realize the importance of a proper glue up

 

[cromag27]

I would totally keep what you have and skin it, it would be rock solid, and look pretty.
Shop around, birch sheets are less than $50 here, it would be hard to imagine a reason it would be so much more for you, try another box store, or better a lumber yard if any near.
Yes I remember now your sump issue back when, too bad, the doubled up legs going top to bottom would have made plenty strong, but really a ply skin added would be just as or maybe even more so

he was looking at baltic birch which is more expensive, but better than standard grade big box birch.

 

[cromag27]

Both work just fine, if designed properly and joined properly.
The 2x like rockets design is more forgiving for the average DIY guy IMO.

Red oak is inexpensive, but it's a bit dated for many when stained, and when painted you always see the hairs of the grain, some people don't mind that I guess but I'm not such a fan usually unless it's done really nice, but even then I still see that hair grain.

I do agree glue makes all the difference, many don't realize the importance of a proper glue up

and that’s where finishing comes into play. i found that people prefer the oak grain for stained stands. when the stand was going to be painted i used standard birch as nobody would see the grain and it was cheaper. after using the proper paint or stain and top coat, you would never see fibers on my stands. but the difference is, i have 20 years experience and we’re talking about average diyers mainly.

a properly built rocket design works, it’s just ugly imo and you lose a little bit of real estate inside the stand.

 

[davocean]

and that’s where finishing comes into play. i found that people prefer the oak grain for stained stands. when the stand was going to be painted i used standard birch as nobody would see the grain and it was cheaper. after using the proper paint or stain and top coat, you would never see fibers on my stands. but the difference is, i have 20 years experience and we’re talking about average diyers mainly.

a properly built rocket design works, it’s just ugly imo and you lose a little bit of real estate inside the stand.

Yeah, I'm a finish carpenter mainly, but a GC as well, I say 30 years or more but really I grew up w/ a step dad contractor and had a nail gun in my hand since I was 10.
I'm 54 now but look younger, so if I say over 40 years experience people look at me funny!
I also went to trade school for auto body paint for 2 years so I'm good w/ the finishing.
I do like to work w/ red oak, it smells nice, supposed to have good medicinal qualities working w/ it which is nice compared to glues and nasties in MDF and such, but I work w/ a lot of designers here that call it dated and won't allow it.
Birch and maple for the most part, mahogany is my own personal favorite when given the chance.

 

[cromag27]

Yeah, I'm a finish carpenter mainly, but a GC as well, I say 30 years or more but really I grew up w/ a step dad contractor and had a nail gun in my hand since I was 10.
I'm 54 now but look younger, so if I say over 40 years experience people look at me funny!
I also went to trade school for auto body paint for 2 years so I'm good w/ the finishing.
I do like to work w/ red oak, it smells nice, supposed to have good medicinal qualities working w/ it which is nice compared to gluess and nasties in MDF and such, but I work w/ a lot of designers here that call it dated and won't allow it.
Birch and maple for the most part, mahogany is my own personal favorite when given the chance.

mahogany is nice. i also hated birch because the stuff from the big box stores is junk. baltic has a lot more plys- heavier and more expensive but cuts much nicer. but in the end i just used whatever materials my customer wanted. i figured it was their tank and they want what they want.

 

[cromag27]

Yeah, I'm a finish carpenter mainly, but a GC as well, I say 30 years or more but really I grew up w/ a step dad contractor and had a nail gun in my hand since I was 10.
I'm 54 now but look younger, so if I say over 40 years experience people look at me funny!
I also went to trade school for auto body paint for 2 years so I'm good w/ the finishing.
I do like to work w/ red oak, it smells nice, supposed to have good medicinal qualities working w/ it which is nice compared to gluess and nasties in MDF and such, but I work w/ a lot of designers here that call it dated and won't allow it.
Birch and maple for the most part, mahogany is my own personal favorite when given the chance.

mahogany is nice. i also hated birch because the stuff from the big box stores is junk. baltic has a lot more plys- heavier and more expensive but cuts much nicer. but in the end i just used whatever materials my customer wanted. i figured it was their tank and they want what they want.

 

[cromag27]

and i will say it’s been a few years since i stopped building stands and i hadn’t heard that some people think oak is an outdated look.

 

[Devaji]

called around to 3 lumber yards...I live in a resort town so everything is expensive.
HD/Lowes is 90 miles away
HD cant get in oak or birch just CDX
lowes has maple 3/4" HPVA ( what ever that means) for $56 4x8 sheet + gas to drive 200 miles RT
as well as oak for about the same.

locally its runs:
oak $91
maple $132
birch $113 however I did call a yard that said they could get it in for $87 not sure if it's the same grade or not??

trimming the sides and back is fine just not sure how to add doors to the front with the 2x4 there?

 

[Devaji]

Curry pic of front of stand.
Open to soo ideas guys.

If it was all plywood I could add Euro hinges and call it day not sure what to do with this...

 

[davocean]

Curry pic of front of stand.
Open to soo ideas guys.

If it was all plywood I could add Euro hinges and call it day not sure what to do with this...

I would probably get the birch from the lumber yard quoted at $87, chances are it's probably better than the big box store birch.
I would have no problems using that stand after skinning w/ ply

 

[davocean]

and i will say it’s been a few years since i stopped building stands and i hadn’t heard that some people think oak is an outdated look.

That is a cleanly finished product and looks great.
I live in San Diego, and work for people that have a lot of money usually, so most designers are set on materials, fish people not so much.
Red oak was everywhere here in 80's and 90's, todays modern kitchen remodels that is the first thing to go for many over here, midwest or back east it seems much more in use.
I know devaji is in an area that seems equally motivated by fashions that are considered more modern

 

[Devaji]

I did find a place about 30 miles away had has birch for $64 /sheet wounder if its any better than big box store? I must not be Baltic birch I bet the other local store was not either if I want the more ply plywood I gotta pay.

skinning question if I screwed and glued back and one side then made a face to add doors then attached one side with Velcro so I could take out sump if I ever need would that work?

staining question would I need to use a pre coat before staining or painting birch also best poly coat?? and how much better is birch than CDX? can I just sand CDX is it worth the effort and time?

so many options here I am confused..

 

[cromag27]

before i answer these questions i want to ask you - does the tank cover the entire top of your stand and is the tank flat bottom or trimmed?

 

[davocean]

Most lumber yards by me have better quality ply than any big box, but most any birch you go w/ will look great and work fine.
Like many things, there are a number of solutions based on your ability and preferences.

You could skin back and sides, and then use 1x to basically face frame the front, and that would hide end grain of the ply, and give a good mounting surface for door hinges.
If I had to retrace steps like on your build, that is perhaps what I would do.

As for poly and stain, I'm good w/ minwax products, and I really like their fast drying poly, it's pretty forgiving in application, and hold up nice.

Wood conditioners are a must for pine or doug fir, not so much for birch IMO, though it would not hurt, just another expense and step.
Really a good sanding is what I normally would do, 220, bring up the fresh, but be careful not to burn through the birch, it's only about a 1/16" thick usually

 

[davocean]

before i answer these questions i want to ask you - does the tank cover the entire top of your stand and is the tank flat bottom or trimmed?

He has an SCA trimless that spans the stand flush

 

[Devaji]

He has an SCA trimless that spans the stand flush

yup it's 36x24x24 and spans the entire stand.

 

[Devaji]

Most lumber yards by me have better quality ply than any big box, but most any birch you go w/ will look great and work fine.
Like many things, there are a number of solutions based on your ability and preferences.

You could skin back and sides, and then use 1x to basically face frame the front, and that would hide end grain of the ply, and give a good mounting surface for door hinges.
If I had to retrace steps like on your build, that is perhaps what I would do.

As for poly and stain, I'm good w/ minwax products, and I really like their fast drying poly, it's pretty forgiving in application, and hold up nice.

Wood conditioners are a must for pine or doug fir, not so much for birch IMO, though it would not hurt, just another expense and step.
Really a good sanding is what I normally would do, 220, bring up the fresh, but be careful not to burn through the birch, it's only about a 1/16" thick usually

good to know I find min wax work able as that is what I used to stain the 2x4 not sure what I used for the poly tho but I do like it it been holding up nicely.

I just need a sump access will not come out the front so it will have to be on of the sides or get a new sump.
just future proofing in case I need to replace the 40br sump.

I guess I could not glue one side and just use screws and dont putty it up might look tacky but in a pinch a could get down there and do a more sump over haul.

question: if I do decide to build a new stand out of plywood. can I mix CDX and birch? like use CDX for the back bottom and top where there not really gonna show then use birch for sides and front?

I dont have a table saw so if I get the wood cut down to a more manageable size I could use my jigsaw with laser and a guide of some sort. or just pay the lumber yard $2 per cut.

I almost think it might be easier to start over...

 

[davocean]

Well, you could skin the sides and cut out for a door same dims as you have now.
Really the skin is to stitch your framing together, you could easily do that by using a piece of ply, cut square by your HD or whatever, then use your jigsaw to cut out the door opening.
A jig saw is not a precision cutting tool, it will meander some, but if a door is covering it who cares really?
Honestly, it's easy to skin what you have and make plenty sound easy and affordable.

 

[cromag27]

I did find a place about 30 miles away had has birch for $64 /sheet wounder if its any better than big box store? I must not be Baltic birch I bet the other local store was not either if I want the more ply plywood I gotta pay.

skinning question if I screwed and glued back and one side then made a face to add doors then attached one side with Velcro so I could take out sump if I ever need would that work?

staining question would I need to use a pre coat before staining or painting birch also best poly coat?? and how much better is birch than CDX? can I just sand CDX is it worth the effort and time?

so many options here I am confused..

let’s break it down a little.

type of wood. since you are staining it, just find wood with whatever grain pattern you like best and what fits your budget. keep in mind that plywood will have two sides graded differently (for the most part). one side will look nicer than the other.

stain. i only used general finishes products. expensive but well worth it. for your purpose i would think you could get away with cheaper stuff like minwax. a conditioner is good to use, unless you don’t mind uneven stain saturation. you will still need to prep the surfaces before staining. a polyurethane top coat is recommended. if you use an oil based stain, use an oil based top coat and vice versa (water based).

if i were you i’d do this.

select the type of wood you want to use. have someone cut it to size. if you have to rely on someone else just be very nice to them and explain you would like the cuts as precise as possible. otherwise they won’t care if the cuts are off.

glue and screw the back panel on. glue and screw one of the side panels. i would also countersink the screws as that will look nicer. you’ll need wood putty to fill the holes. i also like tightbond 2 wood glue.

for the front it really depends on what tools you have and what you feel comfortable with. if you want a cutout and door then you would need a long straight clamp and jigsaw (or better yet, a hand router). if you don’t care about a door you could velcro the panel like you’re doing with one side.

once you’re happy with all that then it’s on to finishing. lots of sanding, spraying with water and sanding some more. then conditioner if you’re going to use it. then stain, more sanding and more stain to get the saturation you want. then top coat and more sanding (if needed) and more top coat. and more top coat. in between all these steps is a lot of drying time in a no/low dust environment. you’ll also need tacky cheese cloth and preferably an air compressor for dust.

and you might want to put a new top piece on as it will no longer cover the entire top.