Is there anywhere to even get a N.Wennerae anymore?

[Stomatopods17]

This is a N.Wennerae! Much different species and temperament. Plus they cowries and mantids come from the same area!

I've had quite a few, they all act different.

I've had N. wenneraes with emerald crabs never harm them, another broke out of a container and went on a killing spree on emeralds in a holding tank. Another would be extremely reclusive and hide at the sight of anything walking by, while the fourth, which with my luck was the active one always swimming around when it was the sump specimen so it always had to be fished out of the return pump compartment.. I had that one I believe 2 years so it was a long game of cat and mouse until it perished. It really depends on several factors, personality is one but I found them to be the most tame if already on a frozen diet and added post-inhabitants so their new scent in the water doesn't trigger anything. Those are best odds but never guarantees.

Its never a good idea to assume any species to be more or less tame just assume the worst and budget accordingly. I've seen angels and demons between the same species on multiple occasions, chiragra is weirdly the one I've yet to see the demonized version of since they're typically referred to as the 'mean and reclusive' one, it wouldn't even mercy kill sick fish (damsel things happened) which was disturbing to watch it ignore.

If its any help (sorry for your loss);

Saltybottomreef had N. wennerae in stock a few weeks ago, i'd get on a waiting list there.

KPaquatics sells them but haven't seen any in stock in awhile, they restocked and sold an O. havanensis recently after the last one I bought so that's something to keep an eye on for anyone interested.

TBS has this: https://tbsaltwater.com/shop/wyswyg-mantis-box/ Which is advertised as a P. ciliata and I'm pretty sure that's an N. wennerae if its a WYSIWYG image in those photos cause I don't see the checkerboard eyes and in general those look like smashers to me. TBH it might be G. viridis, I'd need a dactyl meral spot image to confirm, I'm not good with distributions but I think G. viridis is possible in those waters.

Almost every company I've ordered from, anywhere, has given me a hit and a miss. In general stomatopods and shipping do not go well. I attempted a 4 hour car ride picking up my harlequin shrimp in another state and the perfectly healthy male became very lethargic and died in 24 hours from that ride so I can only imagine what far shipping does to them and just how lucky we are when we get any alive. IMO those above companies are the safest cause they likely go directly from the ocean into their facilities via hitchhiking/ local collecting. Species like O, scyllarus go from collecting to wholesales, then wholesales to LFS/online store, then shipped a 3rd time to you or picked up from the store, any non-Florida distributers likely the same applies for N. wennerae.

 

[SauceyReef]

I've had quite a few, they all act different.

I've had N. wenneraes with emerald crabs never harm them, another broke out of a container and went on a killing spree on emeralds in a holding tank. Another would be extremely reclusive and hide at the sight of anything walking by, while the fourth, which with my luck was the active one always swimming around when it was the sump specimen so it always had to be fished out of the return pump compartment.. I had that one I believe 2 years so it was a long game of cat and mouse until it perished. It really depends on several factors, personality is one but I found them to be the most tame if already on a frozen diet and added post-inhabitants so their new scent in the water doesn't trigger anything. Those are best odds but never guarantees.

Its never a good idea to assume any species to be more or less tame just assume the worst and budget accordingly. I've seen angels and demons between the same species on multiple occasions, chiragra is weirdly the one I've yet to see the demonized version of since they're typically referred to as the 'mean and reclusive' one, it wouldn't even mercy kill sick fish (damsel things happened) which was disturbing to watch it ignore.

If its any help (sorry for your loss);

Saltybottomreef had N. wennerae in stock a few weeks ago, i'd get on a waiting list there.

KPaquatics sells them but haven't seen any in stock in awhile, they restocked and sold an O. havanensis recently after the last one I bought so that's something to keep an eye on for anyone interested.

TBS has this: https://tbsaltwater.com/shop/wyswyg-mantis-box/ Which is advertised as a P. ciliata and I'm pretty sure that's an N. wennerae if its a WYSIWYG image in those photos cause I don't see the checkerboard eyes and in general those look like smashers to me. TBH it might be G. viridis, I'd need a dactyl meral spot image to confirm, I'm not good with distributions but I think G. viridis is possible in those waters.

Almost every company I've ordered from, anywhere, has given me a hit and a miss. In general stomatopods and shipping do not go well. I attempted a 4 hour car ride picking up my harlequin shrimp in another state and the perfectly healthy male became very lethargic and died in 24 hours from that ride so I can only imagine what far shipping does to them and just how lucky we are when we get any alive. IMO those above companies are the safest cause they likely go directly from the ocean into their facilities via hitchhiking/ local collecting. Species like O, scyllarus go from collecting to wholesales, then wholesales to LFS/online store, then shipped a 3rd time to you or picked up from the store, any non-Florida distributers likely the same applies for N. wennerae.

Thank you. Very helpful and informative post. I actually went through SaltyBottomReef for the order above. So far not the best experience, but it really hinges on if they get back with me and make the DOA process easy. I have always been interested in Mantis Shrimp since joining the hobby, but always realized I could not get one for a few factors. As lovely as the O.Scyllarus peacocks are based off the information on how we collect them, their size, short lifespan in aquarium trade, etc I would probably never get one. Some of the Florida specimens seemed perfect with their vast numbers near tidal zones, small size, less distance traveled, and far less of a price. Plus the biggest factor - no shell rot!

I wouldve been down to get the TBS P.Ciliata (or whatever it actually is) seeing it wasn't like $150-$180 for just the mantis and shipping. That is just to expensive for a little pygmy mantis that could potentially not live a year.

I guess this proves to me Mantis Shrimp really are super sensitive unless I just got somehow very unlucky with the specimen. Maybe it was supposed to molt soon?? I mean shipping was perfect. It came in like 16 hours, perfect temp, no delays, packaging was fine. Guess it wasnt meant to be.

 

[Stomatopods17]

It could've just been really unlucky. Mantis shrimp hardiness is overstated but N. wennerae IMO is the hardiest, easiest to keep and easiest to find available. Some biological suppy companies outside the hobby may sell them, ebay occasionally, and it always helps to put a word out there for someone finding one unwanted to profit off it. SBRC hooked me up well a few times, got my crab from them.

My current O. scyllarus thats very healthy came from bluezoo, she's perfect but this was after 2 back-to-back 24/hr slow death O. scyllarus they've sent me a few years ago until I swapped to TPP and put a 3rd in the same tank which thrived in there proving it wasn't me. Fast forward few years later bit the bullet from availability drought and they redeemed themselves with the healthiest one I've ever encountered.

O. scyllarus is definitely very finnicky and hard to keep long running, however N. wennerae lifespans in general are short, don't know an exact number but larger stomatopods typically naturally have longer lifespans. Most of the time they last around a year, for O. scyllarus due to sensitivity, for N. wennerae due to natural causes depending on the size you got it, and being a very small stomatopod its very common they are fully grown or discovered years later after fully growing in the tank.

 

[Hadla]

Omg thanks for that link!!! Ciliatas are one of my favorites! Although I was thinking I could tell if it really is a ciliata, it’s hard since you can’t see lines on the eyes or if there’s smashers or spears

I’m tempted to email and ask if shipping would be cheaper for just the mantis

Sorry about your wennerae! Hopefully they’ll send a replacement or something

 

[Stomatopods17]

Omg thanks for that link!!! Ciliatas are one of my favorites! Although I was thinking I could tell if it really is a ciliata, it’s hard since you can’t see lines on the eyes or if there’s smashers or spears

I’m tempted to email and ask if shipping would be cheaper for just the mantis

Sorry about your wennerae! Hopefully they’ll send a replacement or something

I'd email them for a picture, I genuinely don't believe thats P. ciliata from the photos unless they used stock photos, I'd immediately recognize the dactyls as spearers on P. ciliata but they look like clubs to me.

KP had P. ciliata instock not too long ago but I don't see any rn. My only experience with P. ciliata is basically mirroring what happened to OP, except mine was from an LFS only an hour away and I mainly bought it cause I knew it was there a few months in a tiny kritter keeper and it was already full grown.

 

[Hadla]

I just looked at kp and I’m on the waitlist for one… never got a notice oh, evidently it was only the small waitlist… now I’m on the normal sized one as well

My first ciliata (that I got from my lfs) was killed by oenone fulgida worms in my biocube. They were such a pita and I had them in there for about 6 years. The tank recently crashed due to water getting into the lid so nothing in there’s alive anymore lol

 

[SauceyReef]

Wanted to do an updated - they charged me for shipping, but I ended up getting another from them. This was my last attempt from doing a mantis through the mail. Well good news, and some bad. The good news is the new mantis is beautiful and looks very happy. Sadly my friend got a Aiptasia eating Filefish from them and it is DOA. I will try to get some photos of the mantis, but it is tough as I have the lights off to keep it more calm during acclimation.

 

[SauceyReef]

Acclimation went well. It found a burrow in the rock and seems happy.

 

[Stomatopods17]

woah actually.

I think that's a male G. glaborus, see if you can get a few more angles of it, especially the meral spots. N. wennerae merals are white, glab is orange.

 

[SauceyReef]

woah actually.

I think that's a male G. glaborus, see if you can get a few more angles of it, especially the meral spots. N. wennerae merals are white, glab is orange.

No chance I will be getting that for quite a while now that it is in the tank haha. I will keep my eyes open and see if I can spot it. It did look quite a bit different than the last one. That would be super cool!!

 

[SauceyReef]

woah actually.

I think that's a male G. glaborus, see if you can get a few more angles of it, especially the meral spots. N. wennerae merals are white, glab is orange.

How big do those get though??

 

[Stomatopods17]

How big do those get though??

g_glabrous

3-ish inches.

Its basically a G. ternatensis without the origin morals against it and coral cavities.

 

[SauceyReef]

g_glabrous

3-ish inches.

Its basically a G. ternatensis without the origin morals against it and coral cavities.

Okay so still a similar size as a N.Wennerae. I have actually only ever heard of G.Smithi, N.Wennerae, and peacocks. I know Roy back in the day had a sizeable list on reef centra.

 

[SauceyReef]

g_glabrous

3-ish inches.

Its basically a G. ternatensis without the origin morals against it and coral cavities.

I am reading G. ternatensis make their homes in Poscilipora, and typically get collected with the coral being destroyed. Crazy! Also reading G. glaborus are from Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam and Australia while these definitely came from Florida.

 

[Stomatopods17]

It still very well could be N. wennerae, the species is very color dimorphic.

This is either an N. wennerae (most likely) or a male G. glaborus (distribution suggest no but stranger things happen).

N. Wennerae:

Male G. glaborus:

Meral spot will be the 100% confirmation for you, white for Wennerae, orange for Glabrous

 

[SauceyReef]

It still very well could be N. wennerae, the species is very color dimorphic.

This is either an N. wennerae (most likely) or a male G. glaborus (distribution suggest no but stranger things happen).

N. Wennerae:

Male G. glaborus:

Meral spot will be the 100% confirmation for you, white for Wennerae, orange for Glabrous

Thank you for that clarification! I believe from my memory it did not have the orange spots, but I will be able to get a visual soon, but probably not a photo. I already caught it sneaking out of the burrow checking the tank out.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I know Roy back in the day had a sizeable list on reef centra.

Yeah, you can find the list here:

Roy's List of Stomatopods for the Aquarium

 

[SauceyReef]

Yeah, you can find the list here:

Roy's List of Stomatopods for the Aquarium

Wow I just realized the photo I used on my other post is from his website haha!

I think that almost confirms it should be an N.Wennerae. It is literally identical to the photo that Roy has for an N.wennerae. I will confirm with the meral spot though as the two species does look relatively similar.

Another big confirmation is this should have definitely come from Florida.

 

[LiverockRocks]

I've had quite a few, they all act different.

I've had N. wenneraes with emerald crabs never harm them, another broke out of a container and went on a killing spree on emeralds in a holding tank. Another would be extremely reclusive and hide at the sight of anything walking by, while the fourth, which with my luck was the active one always swimming around when it was the sump specimen so it always had to be fished out of the return pump compartment.. I had that one I believe 2 years so it was a long game of cat and mouse until it perished. It really depends on several factors, personality is one but I found them to be the most tame if already on a frozen diet and added post-inhabitants so their new scent in the water doesn't trigger anything. Those are best odds but never guarantees.

Its never a good idea to assume any species to be more or less tame just assume the worst and budget accordingly. I've seen angels and demons between the same species on multiple occasions, chiragra is weirdly the one I've yet to see the demonized version of since they're typically referred to as the 'mean and reclusive' one, it wouldn't even mercy kill sick fish (damsel things happened) which was disturbing to watch it ignore.

If its any help (sorry for your loss);

Saltybottomreef had N. wennerae in stock a few weeks ago, i'd get on a waiting list there.

KPaquatics sells them but haven't seen any in stock in awhile, they restocked and sold an O. havanensis recently after the last one I bought so that's something to keep an eye on for anyone interested.

TBS has this: https://tbsaltwater.com/shop/wyswyg-mantis-box/ Which is advertised as a P. ciliata and I'm pretty sure that's an N. wennerae if its a WYSIWYG image in those photos cause I don't see the checkerboard eyes and in general those look like smashers to me. TBH it might be G. viridis, I'd need a dactyl meral spot image to confirm, I'm not good with distributions but I think G. viridis is possible in those waters.

Almost every company I've ordered from, anywhere, has given me a hit and a miss. In general stomatopods and shipping do not go well. I attempted a 4 hour car ride picking up my harlequin shrimp in another state and the perfectly healthy male became very lethargic and died in 24 hours from that ride so I can only imagine what far shipping does to them and just how lucky we are when we get any alive. IMO those above companies are the safest cause they likely go directly from the ocean into their facilities via hitchhiking/ local collecting. Species like O, scyllarus go from collecting to wholesales, then wholesales to LFS/online store, then shipped a 3rd time to you or picked up from the store, any non-Florida distributers likely the same applies for N. wennerae.

Glad to have stumbled onto this thread.
Thank you for pointing out that the mantis listed as a P. Ciliata maybe something else. Happy to snap more photos for correct identification.

 

[SauceyReef]

Glad to have stumbled onto this thread.
Thank you for pointing out that the mantis listed as a P. Ciliata maybe something else. Happy to snap more photos for correct identification.

Oh wow I got TBS on my thread! We would love to see more photos to see the ID.

Day 3 with the N.Wennerae here. Still just poking it's head out of the burrow now and than. What would be a good first food for it? I have some hermits, snails, and frozen krill on stock. There are quite a few snails in its tank currently - not sure if they hunt Nassiarus snails.