May we please discuss seam breaks in 2-3 yr tanks

[MnFish1]

when I got this in chat

I was thinking how that ad landing in people's boxes from this thread might sting uniquely. That is one downside to nonspecific marketing/automated sendouts for sure, this ad is not matched to a large subset of posters in this thread.

I was also thinking: what level of beta testing did this iteration of tank get before release; are winners at the start of that beta testing or at the end of it etc

However it probably is directed at the 95%+ of reefers who have not had a problem with these tanks

 

[EliMelly]

However it probably is directed at the 95%+ of reefers who have not had a problem with these tanks

This is my favorite thread on reef2reef.

 

[brandon429]

red sea should have to respond to this thread before being associated with reef2reef via this sales flyer

(reposted here so new page has the example)

I didn't say they had to agree, just respond. just make some statement about these losses from earlier versions

of course that's easily said from my perspective, I'm not paying rtr anything while being here to discern and reflect on various patterns in home reefing.

it's true all sponsors deserve a focus, am just musing on ways to obligate them to account for the breaks and customer service issues stated, it'd be neat if ignoring giant work threads was not an option for sponsors. it is currently for sure an option.

 

[EliMelly]

red sea should have to respond to this thread before being associated with reef2reef via this sales flyer

(reposted here so new page has the example)

I didn't say they had to agree, just respond. just make some statement about these losses from earlier versions

of course that's easily said from my perspective, I'm not paying rtr anything while being here to discern and reflect on various patterns in home reefing.

it's true all sponsors deserve a focus, am just musing on ways to obligate them to account for the breaks and customer service issues stated, it'd be neat if ignoring giant work threads was not an option for sponsors. it is currently for sure an option.

I agree with you. I’m not hating on Red Sea I actually got the new 750 xxl and it seems real solid. But I would like to know what happened and get some honesty from the company. Some of their equipment is great but I prefer an honest approach to business.

 

[brandon429]

great input. they could say something like: any breaks that happened within warranty period were promptly addressed / at least that would constitute a response, an acknowledgement that those at least inside the warranty period will be helped. their total silence plus us helping them make sales via ads I thought wasn't going to force them to make change that's for sure.

this matter will be swept under the rug in 3, 2...

 

[EliMelly]

great input. they could say something like: any breaks that happened within warranty period were promptly addressed / at least that would constitute a response, an acknowledgement that those at least inside the warranty period will be helped. their total silence plus us helping them make sales via ads I thought wasn't going to force them to make change that's for sure.

this matter will be swept under the rug in 3, 2...

Yep I’m with you. I wonder what the reef2reef policy is with all these things and vendors not taking responsibility. I know it’s definitely a great place for reviews but I have no clue whether management gets involved in matters like this.

I mean it would be nice if Red Sea said what the issue was and how it was fixed to build back trust and take ownership.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I have a 725xxl - or 7 years. Only a small number of tanks 'broke' after 2-3 years as far as I know. BTW - I guess the estimate was 5% - which to me is unacceptable

There is no evidence to support 5% or a "small number". You don't know the sales figures our total number of failures.

All that we do know is there are a larger number of failures reported in venues like this than there are for any other brand of aquarium. Bu there are too many variables to really say much more with certainty.

I think the pattern shows a problem with prior models and maybe a pattern of questionable customer service, but it is what it is and we will never know the truth.

The models in question are no longer in production and many in the field are out of warranty or have a non-transferable warranty, etc.

If I owned one, I would get rid if it. Given the response, I am not sure that I would ever buy one, but I wouldn't not patronize them anyway given the US built alternatives.

great input. they could say something like: any breaks that happened within warranty period were promptly addressed / at least that would constitute a response, an acknowledgement that those at least inside the warranty period will be helped. their total silence plus us helping them make sales via ads I thought wasn't going to force them to make change that's for sure.

this matter will be swept under the rug in 3, 2...

They are never going to expose themselves by saying anything, especially in a venue like this with somebody like you that is not a customer or claimant whipping up rhetoric against them.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yep I’m with you. I wonder what the reef2reef policy is with all these things and vendors not taking responsibility. I know it’s definitely a great place for reviews but I have no clue whether management gets involved in matters like this.

I mean it would be nice if Red Sea said what the issue was and how it was fixed to build back trust and take ownership.

They are a paid sponsor. Be happy they are.

Their customer support is not what I would expect from what I have read, but I am not a customer and don't have first hand experience. From the outside, I can't see anything that they have openly done that would violate R2Rs terms or warrant any action from R2R by any stretch of the imagination and R2R would be crazy to turn down sponsor money from a major player in the space.

As for RedSea - they issued retrofits for some models and redesigned current models. That is all you are going to get in the way of acknowledgement. Any more from them would do more harm than good. If there was no real problem, even talking about it gives it renewed legs. If there were significant problems, admitting so, exposes them to lawsuits.

 

[MnFish1]

red sea should have to respond to this thread before being associated with reef2reef via this sales flyer

(reposted here so new page has the example)

I didn't say they had to agree, just respond. just make some statement about these losses from earlier versions

of course that's easily said from my perspective, I'm not paying rtr anything while being here to discern and reflect on various patterns in home reefing.

it's true all sponsors deserve a focus, am just musing on ways to obligate them to account for the breaks and customer service issues stated, it'd be neat if ignoring giant work threads was not an option for sponsors. it is currently for sure an option.

Red Sea has responded... Whether you think their response was adequate or not - they have responded. I find no rationale for anything else - there are multiple threads concerning this problem - and though certain people seem to want to harp on it, it's not going to do any good. If you want a Red Sea tank, buy one - if not buy another. If you want more information - call Red Sea, or your LFS. IMHO - there is nothing wrong, improper or bad about this ad. The problem here - again IMHO - it probably would have been best to have all of these threads in the vendor forum - where everyone could have seen both sides/responses.

 

[MnFish1]

There is no evidence to support 5% or a "small number". You don't know the sales figures our total number of failures.

All that we do know is there are a larger number of failures reported in venues like this than there are for any other brand of aquarium. Bu there are too many variables to really say much more with certainty.

I think the pattern shows a problem with prior models and maybe a pattern of questionable customer service, but it is what it is and we will never know the truth.

The models in question are no longer in production and many in the field are out of warranty or have a non-transferable warranty, etc.

If I owned one, I would get rid if it. Given the response, I am not sure that I would ever buy one, but I wouldn't not patronize them anyway given the US built alternatives.


They are never going to expose themselves by saying anything, especially in a venue like this with somebody like you that is not a customer or claimant whipping up rhetoric against them.

I respect your opinion, though I disagree (very slightly). First - Red Sea sells far more aquariums than any other - so the number of posts here is meaningless since on a percentage basis it's unknown how many more tanks have issues. (However, it is a problem for those that have the the broken tank - and you're right - one can't say much with certainty). Second,It is beyond comprehension that people are complaining about an advertisement. Third, I'm not going to rehash the data/estimates that got to the answer 5% or less - but using at least 3 methods 5% is probably an overestimate. I know you won't agree - it's fine. I also feel that besides reading threads you haven't done due diligence (at least as much as myself - who happens to own 2 XXL tanks - more than 5 and 7 years old).

I will suggest that if there were a significant issue with these tanks (still) - insurance companies would not cover the damage. Just so I don't get jumped on - I believe all of the people that have had leaks, I think Red Sea support for this has been spotty, in the end, I think Red Sea has addressed the issue as well as any other company (would have) with the fixes.

 

[apista]

Good old Redsea, not sure what people expect. Of course there are issues putting over a half tonne on Ikea flat pack furniture, couple that with unsupported glass, i.e. the insistence of flush mounted glass.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I respect your opinion, though I disagree (very slightly). First - Red Sea sells far more aquariums than any other -

Hi - Here is my basic logic. Count all of the tanks in service in the RS sizes that have failures reports.

All-Glass, Aqueon, Marineland, Oceanic, Red Sea, Waterbox, Planet Aquarium, Glass Cages, Reef Savvy, SCA Aquariums, Miracle Aquariums, and Reef Octopus, Innovative Marine, Cade, Advance Aqua, Top-fin, Clear-for-life, Penn Plax, etc. (There are a dozen more).

That number of RS tanks sold in the size range of reported failures pales in comparison to the aggregate of other tanks of similar size that are in service, yet combined there are a fraction of user reported failures compared to RS when there statistically should be magnitudes more.

,It is beyond comprehension that people are complaining about an advertisement.

It is the world we live in these days

I also feel that besides reading threads you haven't done due diligence (at least as much as myself - who happens to own 2 XXL tanks - more than 5 and 7 years old).

I just apply basic logic and mathematics and try to do so in an unbiassed way. I have nothing against RS, they look like nice systems. I have no dog in the fight. I am just analyzing what i see.

I will suggest that if there were a significant issue with these tanks (still) - insurance companies would not cover the damage.

That feedback loop is a lot longer than you would think, not to mention only tiny fraction of aquarium owners add their systems to their policies.

Anyway - none of it matters. I think this entire conversation has run its course and RS is never going to speak to it anyway and people who think they will are delusional.

 

[MnFish1]

Hi - Here is my basic logic. Count all of the tanks in service in the RS sizes that have failures reports.

All-Glass, Aqueon, Marineland, Oceanic, Red Sea, Waterbox, Planet Aquarium, Glass Cages, Reef Savvy, SCA Aquariums, Miracle Aquariums, and Reef Octopus, Innovative Marine, Cade, Advance Aqua, Top-fin, Clear-for-life, Penn Plax, etc. (There are a dozen more).

That number of RS tanks sold in the size range of reported failures pales in comparison to the aggregate of other tanks of similar size that are in service, yet combined there are a fraction of user reported failures compared to RS when there statistically should be magnitudes more.


It is the world we live in these days


I just apply basic logic and mathematics and try to do so in an unbiassed way. I have nothing against RS, they look like nice systems. I have no dog in the fight. I am just analyzing what i see.


That feedback loop is a lot longer than you would think, not to mention only tiny fraction of aquarium owners add their systems to their policies.

Anyway - none of it matters. I think this entire conversation has run its course and RS is never going to speak to it anyway and people who think they will are delusional.

Agree. it has. And - Agree they are.

 

[apista]

I’m not sure how selling more tanks gives the manufacturer a pass on leaks and seam failures

 

[brandon429]

Because the opposite would be to get to sell less tanks because of seam breaks and service fails. Ideally, people don't want to advertise for those types of companies. Buyers typically won't want to buy the pinto version 2.0 deluxe model with reinforced gas tank. This doesn't apply to red sea buyers though, they'll overlook any insult apparently

 

[brandon429]

New seam break

Changing tanks

I have a Red Sea Max S 650 (150 gal display). The tank has been active for 2 years and is leaking at the top seam. Red Sea is going to give me a new tank but my question is about the way to attempt to remove water, rock, sand, fish and a few Corals to a temporary holding then put everything...

www.reef2reef.com

But: we could still win one heh

 

[BeanAnimal]

Why are you insulting RedSea buyers? You are not negatively affected by any of this. In fact you benefit from this community and part of it is made possible by sponsor money from RS. You are shooting holes in your own boat and you are not even a RS customer.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I’m not sure how selling more tanks gives the manufacturer a pass on leaks and seam failures

Agree with the point or not, he was trying to show statistically there fewer than other brands. It was not about giving them a pass.

 

[MnFish1]

I’m not sure how selling more tanks gives the manufacturer a pass on leaks and seam failures

It doesn't give Red Sea a pass. What I was trying to express was let's pretend a manufacturer makes 1,000,000 tanks and 1 % have seam problems (these are made up numbers of course). Another manufacturer makes 10,000 tanks and 1% have seam failures. They both have the same percent of problem seams, but many more people will be reporting the issues with the company that made 1,000,000 tanks. As I've said multiple times - the apparent number of failures in certain tanks is not acceptable.

 

[brandon429]

a non red sea tank seam break out of warranty

how did the manufacturer handle the issue?
(with a little pressure they agreed to get a new tank without charge)

Is My Tank About to Bust a Seam?

I have an IM 50ext that is level, but I noticed this afternoon that the left panel has slughtly pulled away from the front panel on the bottom right. All other panels and seams look good. is my tank about to blow a seam? We have already emailed IM.

www.reef2reef.com

*we can also watch for patterning: with that break example above, do IM-brand tanks start breaking at such a rate that at the end of 2024 we have 25 new work threads, each with 15-30 pages of examples?