No filter sock in sump? Why Randy?

[SaracensRugby]

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/view/brstv-investigates-what-do-filter-socks-do-for-you/

If I recall correctly from the above video, by changing filter socks twice a week, BRS "proved" by swapping out said filter socks at this rate to be an acceptable method to help reduce phosphates. By changing out once a week or less it wasn't really worth it, if you are looking to reduce phosphates by this method anyway.

 

[DLHDesign]

You are not wrong and I may have to search elsewhere for a dual Reef Filler pump ... sigh. Thanks for the confirmation ... saw our RC posting dated back in 2008!!

Something like this? Not sure if you could ship it to Toronto or not...

 

[Whitenoise3k]

So let me get this straight when you say no filter socks, you mean no kind of mechanical filtration? i.e, filter floss, poly mesh

Secondly if the answer to the above question is yes. How bad is the detritus build up in the sump and DT?

 

[Crackem]

I went without socks for awhile and my sump is full of detritus now. I was using felt socks and now I use mesh because they are a lot easier to change out. I don’t like changing the socks out which I do about once a week.

I think I have so much detritus in my sump because with no socks, what happens to the algae that gets scraped off the glass?

My pumps are covered in detritus and I will be doing a deep cleaning very soon. I’ll probably have to start using the felt socks again.

 

[knoxmandan]

Following along. Ijust up graded to the red sea p650 and ive read other articles about going sock-less and I decided 3 weeks ago I was going to go sockless. The red sea mesh socks suck and the felt ones (takes 4) and are a pita to clean. They are different than a regular 4” sock and dont fit. I also added a couple wp 10s to the sump to minimize detritus build up in the sump or dt. It has worked so far i haven’t noticed any rise or fall in nutrients no3 or po4 yet. I too am sick of socks.

 

[Servillius]

In the context of refugia discussions, it is (or should be) flow from tank to refugium and back, and IMO, 10x needed makes no clear sense.

That said, it is certainly possible that some people confound these different ideas: tank flow vs refugium flow through.

I’m glad you said it. I have lots of reasons for wanting enough flow through my sump. Quick disapation of dosed chemicals, etc. the one I really can’t figure is why I would need to expose my chaeto to that much water to get it to work. If I went with one tenth that I think I’d get fractionally less nutrient to it per hour.

Am I crazy?

 

[Servillius]

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/view/brstv-investigates-what-do-filter-socks-do-for-you/

If I recall correctly from the above video, by changing filter socks twice a week, BRS "proved" by swapping out said filter socks at this rate to be an acceptable method to help reduce phosphates. By changing out once a week or less it wasn't really worth it, if you are looking to reduce phosphates by this method anyway.

I need to check this out. BRS does solid work, but I’m curious if they had a solid skimmer running and some good water movement in the sump.

I see about the same particulate level with or without a sock but I definitely see more solids in my skimmate without one. Skimmer really removes the stuff. Socks need some work to accomplish the same task.

I’ll go fishing for the video, but food for thought until I find out I’m late to the party

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m glad you said it. I have lots of reasons for wanting enough flow through my sump. Quick disapation of dosed chemicals, etc. the one I really can’t figure is why I would need to expose my chaeto to that much water to get it to work. If I went with one tenth that I think I’d get fractionally less nutrient to it per hour.

Am I crazy?

Probably, but this doesn't demonstrate it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So let me get this straight when you say no filter socks, you mean no kind of mechanical filtration? i.e, filter floss, poly mesh

Secondly if the answer to the above question is yes. How bad is the detritus build up in the sump and DT?

Yes, and there was a lot of detritus build up in my sump and refugia. Over the years it collected into a thick mud that I did not remove. In some places it might have been up to an inch thick.

 

[sghera64]

Unless you are using the sump as a place to take up a lot of ammonia (meaning not much rock), I cannot see how 10x is needed. What exactly would happen in 6 minutes in the main tank that needs to be 100% turned over in that time?

I think much slower is usually fine. Not sure how much slower, but it depends on the system.

I have to completely agree. Our reef 'systems' are made up of many transport systems (i.e. gases in/out of water, gases & nutrients in/out of fish, coral, algae, micro fauna AND water from display to sump and through sump components).

Rationally, I never understood why one of these transport systems (water from tank to/through sump) had to be 10-100x faster than the others. Emotionally, I can understand a fear-based (and "we don't know what we don't know"-based) urge to diminish inefficiencies in imperfectly engineered filtration systems. But, actually, so many of us run successful 'systems' with less than 10x display tank volume through our system's 'liver' (i.e. refugium).

 

[sghera64]

I've removed my sock for the same reason as you want to. Its been about 2 weeks so far, and the biggest difference I've seen is there is particulate matter in the water column.

My guess is that if you slow your return pump down a bit (or had a longer sump), particulates would settle out and your DT water column was be a little more clear. If I'm right, then over time you might find "mud" building up in your sump. It could even get to an inch deep (I've heard)

 

[XNavyDiver]

My guess is that if you slow your return pump down a bit (or had a longer sump), particulates would settle out and your DT water column was be a little more clear. If I'm right, then over time you might find "mud" building up in your sump. It could even get to an inch deep (I've heard)

And that would be just fine with me. I took a close look at my sump/fuge the other day and saw some sort of paly growing on the gravel bed.

 

[tony'stank]

I have RSr450 . One month ago I removed my filter socks and converted part of my sump to a refugium. I added GFO & Chemipure Blue to my reactor. Two weeks ago I added 6 assorted snails & 6 red leg hermits to the sump/refugium. The sump is cleaner now with no detritus buildup than it was with filter socks. It is great not having to clean and replace the socks every 2-3 days.

 

[DSC reef]

I went without socks for awhile and my sump is full of detritus now. I was using felt socks and now I use mesh because they are a lot easier to change out. I don’t like changing the socks out which I do about once a week.

I think I have so much detritus in my sump because with no socks, what happens to the algae that gets scraped off the glass?

My pumps are covered in detritus and I will be doing a deep cleaning very soon. I’ll probably have to start using the felt socks again.

Same thing happened when I went sockless. Pumps were covered and the sump was a mess. I'd rather change out my socks a couple times a week than clean all my pumps every other month.

 

[tony'stank]

I also tried to increase my flow through my sump by dialing up my Vectra S1 return pump and opening up my sump overflow valves. It got so noisy it wasn’t worth it and I turned them both back down

 

[atoll]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/more-on-detritus.332385/#post-4135617

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/detritus-in-a-reef-tank.211272/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-heck-with-it-im-going-sockless.307138/

 

[Sea MunnKey]

Something like this? Not sure if you could ship it to Toronto or not...

Hey DLHDesign ... thanks for the link. Will have to do some research and maybe get my hands on this dual filler pump.

 

[ShellSea]

Randy
I enjoyed the pictures of your previous tank. Beautiful as I would expect. On the topic of continuous or automatic water changes, with the ability to now test for minor trace elements and dose same on a regular basis, do you feel the continuous 1% per day change is still beneficial? I always thought the main benefit of the continuous change was replacement of trace elements. Your thoughts are welcomed.
Jack
Destin, Fl.

 

[ShellSea]

Randy
I enjoyed the pictures of your previous tank. Beautiful as I would expect. On the topic of continuous or automatic water changes, with the ability to now test for minor trace elements and dose same on a regular basis, do you feel the continuous 1% per day change is still beneficial? I always thought the main benefit of the continuous change was replacement of trace elements. Your thoughts are welcomed.
Jack
Destin, Fl.

 

[ShellSea]

Randy
I enjoyed the pictures of your previous tank. Beautiful as I would expect. On the topic of continuous or automatic water changes, with the ability to now test for minor trace elements and dose same on a regular basis, do you feel the continuous 1% per day change is still beneficial? I always thought the main benefit of the continuous change was replacement of trace elements. Your thoughts are welcomed.
Jack
Destin, Fl.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy
I enjoyed the pictures of your previous tank. Beautiful as I would expect. On the topic of continuous or automatic water changes, with the ability to now test for minor trace elements and dose same on a regular basis, do you feel the continuous 1% per day change is still beneficial? I always thought the main benefit of the continuous change was replacement of trace elements. Your thoughts are welcomed.
Jack
Destin, Fl.

Yes, beneficial.
Necessary? no,
Adequate to maintain NSW levels of all trace elements? no

But it may help a lot with some elements that deplete slowly, such as magnesium and potassium and probably some trace elements.

It also exports those elements that are accumulating (many people are in this scenario for one or more metals) and it also keeps certain organics that may be hard to control in other ways.

Finally, it helps control the balance of the major ions that few people control, like chloride and sulfate.