Potassium Hydroxide Dosing??

[Shooter6]

Any time I say diy two part (like the links below) it is not either of the posted sodium hydroxide two part systems. These other recipes use either baking soda or sodium carbonate (BRS uses that recipe).

Ifam referring to a hydroxide recipe, I call those ultra high pH two part formulations

All for reef comb with other 2 part

Hello everyone As the title says can i combine all for reef with other 2 part method? I'm currently using a high ph boost 3 part solution but it's getting expensive and looking for alternatives. Regards

www.reef2reef.com

All for reef comb with other 2 part

Hello everyone As the title says can i combine all for reef with other 2 part method? I'm currently using a high ph boost 3 part solution but it's getting expensive and looking for alternatives. Regards

www.reef2reef.com

Here’s a post from 2 months ago where I call out two commercial brands (ESV and TM):

Anyone Using Live Aquaria Two Part Cal/Alk?

Wondering if anyone is using the two part from Live Aquaria? And what might the mixing instructions be? Maybe they are identical to BRS? Thanks

www.reef2reef.com

Yeah again I'm not sure which of your diy recipes you posted in the afr thread. I do know you said you saw no benefits to a 1 component dosing solution and said people should just use your diy recipe instead, and posted the link to your write up and recipe.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yeah again I'm not sure which of your diy recipes you posted in the afr thread. I do know you said you saw no benefits to a 1 component dosing solution and said people should just use your diy recipe instead, and posted the link to your write up and recipe.

I post lots of links to the various recipes, so I'm not sure which one you mean, but the simple fact that I link several different recipes shows I do not favor one all the time, but tailor it to the question at hand, and that's what I would do here if asked.

 

[Shooter6]

I post lots of links to the various recipes, so I'm not sure which one you mean, but the simple fact that I link several different recipes shows I do not favor one all the time, but tailor it to the question at hand, and that's what I would do here if asked.

My interest is in the actual use of potassium hydroxide, and the long term results from actual use. In the end that's all that matters. I've been in this hobby long enough to see things come and go. New systems, technology brands come with the hype of the in people pushing it, then it fizzle out to nothing.
Example ari's wonder dip for his mystery bug.
I've also seen new ideas shot down by nay sayers until it becomes so overwhelmly evident the product has a valid use they have to stop dismissing it.

Hell kalkwasser is a great example. We all used it in the late 80s and through the 90s, then calcium reactors and 3 part took over. For the past 10 years people would act like you were crazy if you said you used kalkwasser, and would school you on how you were going to crash your tank. Now those same people are raving about kalkwasser hahaha.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My interest is in the actual use of potassium hydroxide, and the long term results from actual use. In the end that's all that matters. I've been in this hobby long enough to see things come and go. New systems, technology brands come with the hype of the in people pushing it, then it fizzle out to nothing.
Example ari's wonder dip for his mystery bug.
I've also seen new ideas shot down by nay sayers until it becomes so overwhelmly evident the product has a valid use they have to stop dismissing it.

Hell kalkwasser is a great example. We all used it in the late 80s and through the 90s, then calcium reactors and 3 part took over. For the past 10 years people would act like you were crazy if you said you used kalkwasser, and would school you on how you were going to crash your tank. Now those same people are raving about kalkwasser hahaha.

Fine. I personally would not recommend anyone test this idea to provide you with user experiences, but I’m sure some will be fooled into thinking it’s a good idea.

As to fads, chemical reality doesn’t depend on what people pick to do, it just is what it is. I used kalkwasser for 20 years and think it’s a fine plan. I’d probably alter how exactly I dosed it, maybe using an alk controller, but otherwise it’s a fine method.

All calcium and alk methods have pros and cons, and most have situations where they shine, or at at least acceptable options. AFR or a two part for small tanks, CaCO3/CO2 reactors for big systems, kalkwasser for lower alk demand or low pH systems, etc.

Potassium hydroxide does not have any scenario that I can think of where it is the best choice, and unless someone can articulate a reason to use it, I will continue to categorize it as a folly of someone who clearly by his own statements, does not understand chemistry.

 

[Shooter6]

Fine. I personally would not recommend anyone test this idea to provide you with user experiences, but I’m sure some will be fooled into thinking it’s a good idea.

As to fads, chemical reality doesn’t depend on what people pick to do, it just is what it is. I used kalkwasser for 20 years and think it’s a fine plan. I’d probably alter how exactly I dosed it, maybe using an alk controller, but otherwise it’s a fine method.

All calcium and alk methods have pros and cons, and most have situations where they shine, or at at least acceptable options. AFR or a two part for small tanks, CaCO3/CO2 reactors for big systems, kalkwasser for lower alk demand or low pH systems, etc.

Potassium hydroxide does not have any scenario that I can think of where it is the best choice, and unless someone can articulate a reason to use it, I will continue to categorize it as a folly of someone who clearly by his own statements, does not understand chemistry.

See the issue with your last paragraph is that you are looking at it as a method for the full alk dosing which it has not been suggested to be used as. It is being used by Chris as a partner to kalk and calcium reactor. Therefore it is 1 part of a multi part system. You keep speaking as if it's a 1 or the other. If anything he is using it to offset the ph suppression of the calcium reactor, and kalk increases the ph even higher or vs versa. Let's say he runs a ph of 8.25 with the calcium reactor and kalkwasser. And the little bit of potassium hydroxide he's dosing pushes it up to 8.32. At that ph he experienced brighter colors and increased growth vs without it. In his farm both would be highly beneficial right.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

See the issue with your last paragraph is that you are looking at it as a method for the full alk dosing which it has not been suggested to be used as. It is being used by Chris as a partner to kalk and calcium reactor. Therefore it is 1 part of a multi part system. You keep speaking as if it's a 1 or the other. If anything he is using it to offset the ph suppression of the calcium reactor, and kalk increases the ph even higher or vs versa. Let's say he runs a ph of 8.25 with the calcium reactor and kalkwasser. And the little bit of potassium hydroxide he's dosing pushes it up to 8.32. At that ph he experienced brighter colors and increased growth vs without it. In his farm both would be highly beneficial right.

No, I’m not saying it is all or nothing and made that perfectly clear.

This is a bad idea for most ordinary reef tanks. No amount of “ let’s just see what peoples experiences are” can fix a bad idea. It would have been a disaster in my tank.

One last time. To get a pH boost as you claim, of pH 8.25 to 8.32, even for a brief instant, requires about 0.15 dKH (0.053 meq/L) of alk added via hydroxide (I have measured and published the pH effect of hydroxide). If you want that effect to last for hours or all day, it takes far more.

But even if we assume he only wants that pH effect for the shortest possible time by instantaneous dosing once a day, that will add 0.053 milliequivalents of potassium per L or 2.1 ppm of potassium each day.

In year, that pushes potassium up from 400 ppm to 1155 ppm, assuming no water changes or consumption.

That neither sounds appropriate nor desirable. Might it be exactly what some sort of extreme high potassium demand aquarium happens to need in potassium? Maybe by some freak coincidence it is. Perhaps in a coral farm where no foods are given, just inorganic supplements, it is needed. In a normal reef tank, potassium demand is usually lower.

But there is NO rationale to make any sort of hypotheses that the corals will respond differently than if that same pH and potassium level (whatever the goal number is) is attained with ordinary alk additives and, if needed, potassium supplements.

Both sodium hydroxide and potassium chloride are available as inexpensive food grade additives from Amazon.

There’s no need to invoke the complications of dosing potassium hydroxide and tying the two together in a way that makes controlling both more challenging.

To all readers, I’ll say this:

Boost pH? Sure, give it a try.

Maintain potassium at natural levels or boost it to higher levels as some have experimented with? sure, give that a try,

But do not expect to substantially boost pH and not get elevated potassium in most reef tanks if you use potassium hydroxide.

And most importantly, DO NOT expect that dosing potassium hydroxide will give any coral effects that are different than are obtained through any other means of attaining the same pH and potassium levels.

My aquarium maintained natural potassium levels with no potassium dosing, and maintained higher pH (8.35 to 8.5) using only calcium hydroxide. Of course some tanks need more alk and calcium, and one needs to decide how to supplement it. There are many suitable choices.

 

[Shooter6]

No, I’m not saying it is all or nothing and made that perfectly clear.

This is a bad idea for most ordinary reef tanks. No amount of “ let’s just see what peoples experiences are” can fix a bad idea. It would have been a disaster in my tank.

One last time. To get a pH boost as you claim, of pH 8.25 to 8.32, even for a brief instant, requires about 0.15 dKH (0.053 meq/L) of alk added via hydroxide (I have measured and published the pH effect of hydroxide). If you want that effect to last for hours or all day, it takes far more.

But even if we assume he only wants that pH effect for the shortest possible time by instantaneous dosing once a day, that will add 0.053 milliequivalents of potassium per L or 2.1 ppm of potassium each day.

In year, that pushes potassium up from 400 ppm to 1155 ppm, assuming no water changes or consumption.

That neither sounds appropriate nor desirable. Might it be exactly what some sort of extreme high potassium demand aquarium happens to need in potassium? Maybe by some freak coincidence it is. Perhaps in a coral farm where no foods are given, just inorganic supplements, it is needed. In a normal reef tank, potassium demand is usually lower.

But there is NO rationale to make any sort of hypotheses that the corals will respond differently than if that same pH and potassium level (whatever the goal number is) is attained with ordinary alk additives and, if needed, potassium supplements.

Both sodium hydroxide and potassium chloride are available as inexpensive food grade additives from Amazon.

There’s no need to invoke the complications of dosing potassium hydroxide and tying the two together in a way that makes controlling both more challenging.

To all readers, I’ll say this:

Boost pH? Sure, give it a try.

Maintain potassium at natural levels or boost it to higher levels as some have experimented with? sure, give that a try,

But do not expect to substantially boost pH and not get elevated potassium in most reef tanks if you use potassium hydroxide.

And most importantly, DO NOT expect that dosing potassium hydroxide will give any coral effects that are different than are obtained through any other means of attaining the same pH and potassium levels.

My aquarium maintained natural potassium levels with no potassium dosing, and maintained higher pH (8.35 to 8.5) using only calcium hydroxide. Of course some tanks need more alk and calcium, and one needs to decide how to supplement it. There are many suitable choices.

I understand your reef and most others do not need the potassium increase. I understand your sodium hydroxide works for you and many others .
I know there's potassium supplements. I really do not see an issue with the use of the potassium hydroxide for potassium dosing though. As your previous statement about a hydroxide is a hydroxide, can be repeated as a potassium is a potassium.
I wish you would actually watch the video about it so you can actually speak to his dosing instead of guessing about it and making comments to the dosing without the actual context.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I understand your reef and most others do not need the potassium increase. I understand your sodium hydroxide works for you and many others .
I know there's potassium supplements. I really do not see an issue with the use of the potassium hydroxide for potassium dosing though. As your previous statement about a hydroxide is a hydroxide, can be repeated as a potassium is a potassium.
I wish you would actually watch the video about it so you can actually speak to his dosing instead of guessing about it and making comments to the dosing without the actual context.

Ok, I’ve made all my points clearly, but I do need to clarify that I have not ever used sodium hydroxide in my aquarium. Limewater (kalkwasser) was what I used for 20 years.

 

[Shooter6]

Ok, I’ve made all my points clearly, but I do need to clarify that I have not ever used sodium hydroxide in my aquarium. Limewater (kalkwasser) was what I used for 20 years.

I've only seen it recently being used for aptasia and majano control.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've only seen it recently being used for aptasia and majano control.

Brightwell has been selling a hydroxide solution for a while as a pH booster, but they actually claim it won’t raise alkalinity. Lol

 

[Shooter6]

Brightwell has been selling a hydroxide solution for a while as a pH booster, but they actually claim it won’t raise alkalinity. Lol

Well you know all these product manufacturers/ sellers really are only in it for the profits. Their knowledge isn't as much as you were giving them credit for in your earlier post. When you said none of them are selling potassium hydroxide. Hell most probably don't even know what it is. It seems 99.99% of them only sell the same couple products, repackaged and labeled.

Few like tm goes outside the box with things like all for reef.

 

[Reefahholic]

I don’t know of any situation where potassium hydroxide is desirable. If you want hydroxide, use calcium or sodium. Potassium hydroxide will boost potassium every day until it is way higher than NSW.

If you want potassium, dose potassium chloride.

Tying the two together is, IMO, like trying to use a tool that is a combination of a hammer and a saw, and is likely not optimal for making a table.

Kalkwasser for the win!

 

[Reefahholic]

For the past 10 years people would act like you were crazy if you said you used kalkwasser, and would school you on how you were going to crash your tank.

Nobody has really stopped using Kalk in the past 10 years. Everybody still uses it. Makes corals base out extremely well. It’s cheap and gives all the pH bump you need. Most people run it on top of their 2-part or Calcium Reactor. Coral farmers are still using it.

 

[Shooter6]

Nobody has really stopped using Kalk in the past 10 years. Everybody still uses it. Makes corals base out extremely well. It’s cheap and gives all the pH bump you need. Most people run it on top of their 2-part or Calcium Reactor. Coral farmers are still using it.

Actually the big push was calcium reactors and 3 part as the way to go. Kalk has been frowned apon as dangerous, story's of crashed tanks ect. Only old school reefers like myself kept using it.

Newer reefers are just now discovering it and acting like it's some new found system.

I agree with you about the benefits of it. And that some farmers kept using it, but many also are just now implementing it.

 

[Reefahholic]

Actually the big push was calcium reactors and 3 part as the way to go. Kalk has been frowned apon as dangerous, story's of crashed tanks ect. Only old school reefers like myself kept using it.

Newer reefers are just now discovering it and acting like it's some new found system.

I agree with you about the benefits of it. And that some farmers kept using it, but many also are just now implementing it.

I’ve noticed every newbie from here to China is on All for Reef.

 

[Shooter6]

I’ve noticed every newbie from here to China is on All for Reef.

It's really a pretty good system that only requires minor tweaks once in a while. I use it in conjunction with 3 part and kalkwasser to help with trace elements.

 

[Reefahholic]

It's really a pretty good system that only requires minor tweaks once in a while. I use it in conjunction with 3 part and kalkwasser to help with trace elements.

It lacks Born, Potassium, and Rubidium.?

 

[Shooter6]

It lacks Born, Potassium, and Rubidium.?

I know it has 17 id have to double check though before claiming it does or doesn't.
What 3 part,kalkwasser, or calcium reactor does though? I mean that's kinda nitpicking in my opinion.

 

[Shooter6]

It lacks Born, Potassium, and Rubidium.?

Here is screen shots of tm elements a & k which all for reef has both in it.
Possibly more then what's listed in each since it equals 17 trace elements from the website description.

 

[Reefahholic]

I know it has 17 id have to double check though before claiming it does or doesn't.
What 3 part,kalkwasser, or calcium reactor does though? I mean that's kinda nitpicking in my opinion.

I run a Calcium Reactor & Kalk for the big 3 and maintain traces by individually dosing. That includes Boron, Potassium, and Rubidium.