Pros vs Cons: Deep Sand Bed vs Shallow Sand Bed

[Sexy Pat]

Bare bottom for me

 

[Sexy Pat]

Deep sand bed works great as a buffer tho!

 

[SeymourDuncan]

If your water is off enough for the sand to actually buffer then you may look into why its so off. Doesn't the water have o be extremely low in pH to activate the sands buffering capabilities? And also if the sand is buffering that would mean the dissolving sand would basically turn to cement, which is not unheard of.

 

[jackson6745]

Not a fan of DSB. They store organic waste and create an uphill battle to maintain pristine water quality. Speaking from experience. A shallow sandbed functions like a BB system with more surface area for bacteria to grow on. I/m also not a BB fan because things tend to become sterile. Notice pastel colors in a lot of BB systems.

 

[SeymourDuncan]

Once you make it up the hill its all downhill until you get to the next hill. Its really always either up or down.

 

[revhtree]

I have always chosen to go Shallow!

 

[AZDesertRat]

I am a big fan of DSB and have them in both of my current systems, one is 9 years old and the other is 11 years old with non detectable phosphates and nitrates in both. The key is don't overfeed and don't mess with the sand. I have had shallow, a decorative dusting, crushed coral, bare bottom, a plenum, and every other variant and would never have anything but a DSB today. To each his own and don't believe everything you hear or see about a DSB being evil or bad, its not true.

 

[shred5]

I couldn't imagine not having my 5-6", 330 lb. Southdown DSB in my 100G. Its been there for over 8 years now and still as white and loose as the day it was installed.
It has never been vacuumed deeper than 1/4", never been removed or replaced, and never been disturbed other than a little digging here and there by my yellow watchman goby or wrasse. The phosphates and nitrates are non detectable using Salifert kits. I do also use and recommend a Phosban type reactor with 1/2 the recommended dosage or about 5 grams per 10 gallons of system water 24/7/365 and have a refugium section in my sump which contains chaetomorpha macroalgae. The pumps are two Evolutions 1400's on a RKL set at 30 second switching intervals and an OR 3500 return pump via an Oceans Motions Squirt two way so the flows are pretty high and the sand stays put just fine, no mounding or bare spots.

Personally I think DSB's have received an undeserved bad rap on some of the reef forums. The problems I have personally seen have been the owner constantly messing with the sand, disturbing the anaerobic and anoxic bacterias in the process. Leave it alone, do not over stock and do not overfeed and it works fine. Just my opinion based on over 8 years of constant use and success.

I know what forum you are talking about lol...

I have known several people with dsb that are over 10 years old. The one tank was tore down because of over growth and the need to start over not because of the dsb. Most dsb fail because of neglect but so would the tank eventually even if it was bare bottom. Dsb need to be set up right and taken care of like anything else, proper husbandry..

Bare bottom is easiest and why it always has been recommended for beginners. You can see detritus accumulation. It is where to start.

Honestly if done right they all work. I have kept them all different ways. I didn't vote because I like them all and different for each thing I keep or how much time I have. Hell I had a crushed coral sand bed in the beginning at it worked fine but that was like 28 years ago or more.

 

[revhtree]

Any more input?

 

[Mike J.]

If your water is off enough for the sand to actually buffer then you may look into why its so off. Doesn't the water have o be extremely low in pH to activate the sands buffering capabilities? And also if the sand is buffering that would mean the dissolving sand would basically turn to cement, which is not unheard of.

This is a myth that is believed by many aquarists. Oolite aragonite sand can dissolve in a pH as high as 8.2.

Oolitic aragonite has the wonderful benefit of dissolving rather quickly; in ordinary systems it has a half-life of approximately 18-24 months. The dissolution of the calcareous sand is a great source of minerals for reef growth.

Compositional calcite material (crushed shell, rubble, crushed coral, etc.) does not dissolve unless the pH drops to near or below 7.6. So, this means to us that it (oolitic aragonite) will help buffer and stabilize pH.

 

[Mike J.]

I couldn't imagine not having my 5-6", 330 lb. Southdown DSB in my 100G. Its been there for over 8 years now and still as white and loose as the day it was installed.
It has never been vacuumed deeper than 1/4", never been removed or replaced, and never been disturbed other than a little digging here and there by my yellow watchman goby or wrasse. The phosphates and nitrates are non detectable using Salifert kits. I do also use and recommend a Phosban type reactor with 1/2 the recommended dosage or about 5 grams per 10 gallons of system water 24/7/365 and have a refugium section in my sump which contains chaetomorpha macroalgae. The pumps are two Evolutions 1400's on a RKL set at 30 second switching intervals and an OR 3500 return pump via an Oceans Motions Squirt two way so the flows are pretty high and the sand stays put just fine, no mounding or bare spots.

Personally I think DSB's have received an undeserved bad rap on some of the reef forums. The problems I have personally seen have been the owner constantly messing with the sand, disturbing the anaerobic and anoxic bacterias in the process. Leave it alone, do not over stock and do not overfeed and it works fine. Just my opinion based on over 8 years of constant use and success.

One more in agreement. When people write in and say "my sand bed is 2-3 inches" my first thought is oh, oh.

I have a tank that is going to be nine in May. It has a DSB and it's always clean and maintenance free. The sand actually moves (from critters) after the lights go out.

 

[Mike J.]

Obviously, this topic about DSB's is compelling to me. Another myth in the reefing community is that a DSB will create areas of anaerobic pockets of toxic hydrogen sulfide gas. The truth is as water from the aquarium slowly diffuses through a deep sand layer, nitrogenous wastes are completely broken down, with gaseous nitrogen liberated as a harmless end product. There have been many studies done that show that these occurrences are extremely rare. Other studies have been done showing that hydrogen sulfide gas is present in the ocean. And other studies have been done that show it takes an extreme amount of hydrogen sulfide to be poisonous to our reef inhabitants.

A sand bed that creates these pockets of hydrogen sulfide is one that is not deep enough to be anaerobic, but too deep to be fully aerobic. Another way to say it is sand between 1/2" and 3" is usually not deep enough to reduce nitrate and yet too deep to be fully aerobic. This is when you create a "nutrient sink". IMO it is a recipe for disaster. The sand collects nitrates which are just collected and not consumed.

Another benefit to a DSB is the competition of the living substrate with nuisance algae for nutrients. Nitrifying bacteria in the upper region of the substrate will compete with pest organisms for ammonia and other nutritive compounds in the water.

Aside from nitrate reduction and nutrient control, live sand also encourages the growth of microfauna that provide natural food for fishes and invertebrates. The macroorganisms and natural plankton generated by live sand cultures are likened in their role of importance in coral gardening to eath worms and saprophytic organisms living in terrestrial gardens.

 

[Dog Boy Dave]

I run the main SPS portion of my system bare bottom. In a larger system Its almost impossible to maintain the areas under the rock if they have sand. However, My main SPS tank is plumbed into two large Deep Sand Bed Systems. Both are set up free of predators and are managed aggressively. They are not disturbed but I make sure I maintain a very diverse population of send dwellers in each of the DSB areas. Many people confuse a properly set up DSB with sand or gravel in your tank. They are very different and most problems with DSB are due to confusion as to what they are actually trying to accomplish with their DSB. If the DSB SYSTEm is not planned and set up to accomplish the establishment and maintenance of a diverse bio system then it is doomed to fail eventually. If you wish to research the difference between a pile of sand and a DSB some time spent reading this guy might help. Ron Shimek's Website...Deep Sand Beds

 

[Love the Tang]

I'm going with a DSB I like the look I like how it supports my rock and I love the minimal maintenance on the bed itself. I like it for my sand sifting creatures. Im leaving tons out.

 

[rhwimmers]

SOUTHDOWN!!! Heck yeah that stuff was great - had my parents buy it in NY and bring it to Indiana for me! Those days are 3 or 4 tanks ago now though.


I have a 3-4" bed in my DT and sump has a portion with a 8-12" DSB with mangroves and cheato, and the rest of the sump is probably 5-8" (100g stock tank sump).

Anyone stir their sand bed, if so how shallow is yours and have you noticed a healthier tank/better parameters?

 

[Rjramos]

I feel both methods are efficient at nitrate reduction and nutrient export. DSB with proper flow work great. Refugiums with mud 1" deep with macro algaes growing are efficient too. If you got the space available,I would say go with a deeper sand bed. In my main display I run varied 1"-3 1/2", sand depth. It stays white with no sand sifters. The refugium sump below has 1" of mud in it with chaeto growing.

 

[EdansClownHouse]

I completely agree. I have tried deep and currently have shallow for the past year. I am definitely going back to deep.

 

[SuperTang]

What do you guys think of a 2-3 inch sand bed in DT and a 4-5 inch deep sand bed in the sump

 

[Mike J.]

One more in agreement. When people write in and say "my sand bed is 2-3 inches" my first thought is oh, oh.

I have a tank that is going to be nine in May. It has a DSB and it's always clean and maintenance free. The sand actually moves (from critters) after the lights go out.

What do you guys think of a 2-3 inch sand bed in DT and a 4-5 inch deep sand bed in the sump

I would say, "oh, oh."

 

[Eienna]

What do you guys think of a 2-3 inch sand bed in DT and a 4-5 inch deep sand bed in the sump

I think the rule of thumb is less than 2" or more than 4". Between that, people tend to run into problems.