Selling trident for a profit - okay or not?

[Nep2nRevision3]

Markup at around 2x now. It started at 4-5x but has come down as more units are distributed.

Wow, had no idea so thanks for the reply @TheHarold, that is extreme. But now I'm even more curious who would look at that outrageous number (knowing that they're aquarium has survived to date without it) and fork out that kind of money? Wonder if anyone will come forward and admit to paying 4-5x the retail price? I'd love to hear the reasoning behind their decision. Especially since they are completely unproven. "I just sold my extra Bentley Rapier and had a few extra bucks to throw at a trident".

 

[TheHarold]

Wow, had no idea so thanks for the reply @TheHarold, that is extreme. But now I'm even more curious who would look at that outrageous number (knowing that they're aquarium has survived to date without it) and fork out that kind of money? Wonder if anyone will come forward and admit to paying 4-5x the retail price? I'd love to hear the reasoning behind their decision. Especially since they are completely unproven. "I just sold my extra Bentley Rapier and had a few extra bucks to throw at a trident".

Its the people that dont have to worry about money. If they cant get it on BRS, they'll get it on eBay. Price isn't a concern.

 

[User1]

It isn't about a profit. You don't want to pay don't play. I believe the bigger question to ask is if the Trident's warranty is valid when sold by a third party be it board member or ebay. Gifts do not count because it is a gift and there is a receipt.

There are some rules when buying big ticket items such as boats and sports cars. Most cases the general rule is to let someone else take the depreciation hit so buy used. Especially boats and luxury cars. Then there is this thing about high performance cars and ADM (Additional Dealer Markup). Again, low volume cars, niche, and lots of go fast goodies means a good opportunity for the dealer owner to make a quick and easy 25k profit and take his/her family on a nice vacation. Especially when we are talking 1 car slotted per dealer if that.

There are a few rare occasions that this goes out the window (number 1 off assembly line for charity auction) such as the Ford GT but in most cases some will hold value ok most do not. Thus letting the first buyer take the hit because they usually have more money to pee away or just flat out ignorance and playing the keeping up with jones game of life.

So let people try and sell. Let the buyer ponder warranty. And above all let the form admin and admins police what they should be such as profanity, user hostility, and other minor rule infraction to keep things running smoothly for us. Pricing or resell threads shouldn't be one of them unless there is a dispute or something major issue.

 

[LV3]

Why isn’t the warranty on these products tied to a serial number instead of the original purchaser. Even my wife’s handbag has a warranty that is transferable. I think they should warranty the product and not the person. I’m sure there’s a reason for this.

If you bought a trident from someone brand new, sealed, and received the original receipt from the seller, shouldn’t the warranty cover you when you register the item?

 

[ShepherdTech]

Why isn’t the warranty on these products tied to a serial number and not the original purchaser. Even my wife’s handbag has a warranty that is transferable. I think they should warranty the product and not the person. I’m sure there’s a reason for this.

If you bought a trident from someone brand new, sealed, and received the original receipt from the seller, shouldn’t the warranty cover you when you register the item?

Neptune requires an invoice number, purchase date, receipt, etc. to return or warranty things.

 

[TARHEEL78]

Why isn’t the warranty on these products tied to a serial number and not the original purchaser. Even my wife’s handbag has a warranty that is transferable. I think they should warranty the product and not the person. I’m sure there’s a reason for this.

If you bought a trident from someone brand new, sealed, and received the original receipt from the seller, shouldn’t the warranty cover you when you register the item?

Imagine if car manufacturers played this silly warranty game. The used but still under warranty car market would go downhill quick.

 

[LV3]

Y

Neptune requires an invoice number, purchase date, receipt, etc. to return or warranty things.

Right, I saw that, but I’m just curious why the actual product isn’t covered under a manufacturer defects warranty regardless of the purchaser.

 

[naterealbig]

I vote that it is not ok....

In the spirit of capitalism, sure, go for the gold. If you can make a few hundred bucks without having to do any real work, that's awesome.

In the spirit of the hobby and helping your fellow reefer, you are failing miserably. Period.

If it makes any difference, I am a Neptune Apex user, and while I will probably purchase a trident at some point, I am not currently in the market.

 

[ShepherdTech]

Y


Right, I saw that, but I’m just curious why the actual product isn’t covered under a manufacturer defects warranty regardless of the purchaser.

I am guessing to control distribution and prevent lookalike merchandise?

 

[alton]

This has been happening for a long time, remember the playstation craze? It is funny though about tickets to a play off game, try that and you go to jail for scalping tickets. But you can hand them off to a ticket broker and he can increase the price 1000% and that is perfectly legal!

 

[TheHarold]

How about you try reframing it like this:

Selling a trident for a profit allowed me to afford buying one for myself.

It’s $600. That’s a lot of money. But reselling one gave more than enough funds to be able to get a unit for myself in the future.

It’s a strategy for budget honbiests to afford equipment. Remember, it’s not the rich people who are reselling these...... It’s just a redistribution of funds. The budget conscious taking advantage of those who have NO budget.

 

[Thales]

Y


Right, I saw that, but I’m just curious why the actual product isn’t covered under a manufacturer defects warranty regardless of the purchaser.

Likely it is about the product being out of their, or their distributors, control which means it could have been treated in any number of incorrect ways possible, combined with the the large number of people that make nutty/unethical warranty claims. People will submerge equipment that isn't supposed to get wet, and then say it didn't get went and demand it be fixed under warranty. People will take old equipment and put it in a new box and sell it, or try to return it. These are the kinds of things that can majorly impact a small businesses bottom line. Kind of like why most LFS simply can't afford to give a two week guarantee on livestock.

 

[mitch91175]

Why isn’t the warranty on these products tied to a serial number instead of the original purchaser. Even my wife’s handbag has a warranty that is transferable. I think they should warranty the product and not the person. I’m sure there’s a reason for this.

If you bought a trident from someone brand new, sealed, and received the original receipt from the seller, shouldn’t the warranty cover you when you register the item?

Here is an example about a warranty that most people do not know. When you get warranty coverage on your cell phone, you would think that the warranty follows the cell phone; wrong. The warranty follows the SIM card. So whatever phone was able to actually use the SIM card last is the phone that is covered by warranty when making a claim.

Now to re-selling a Trident. The Trident will be covered under warranty base on the serial # of the unit for whatever term the unit has the warranty (12 months). I was told this by someone that should/is aware of Neptune's warranty policy. Besides, I'd imagine that the Trident will last at least 12 months so all this no warranty coverage non-sense is just that non-sense.

If someone wants to pay $10K for a Trident, that is there prerogative. Every single thing that occurs in the world as it relates to this hobby doesn't have to be "APPROVED" by the R2R community. If some put more attention into actually caring for their tanks rather than worry about someone selling something for this or that, maybe we wouldn't have so many people selling everything shortly after getting into the hobby.

If you do not want to pay the asking price for anything, just do not pay it and keep moving. Eventually the price will drop to a point where you want to pay or you just have to live without. Simple as that.

 

[BryanD]

A fool and his money are soon parted.

 

[GK3]

153 replies and running, that’s awesome. So here is my thought:

Water, gas, food, shelter during a crises - if you gouge there you are a horrible, horrible person. I am not saying you need to lose money, but that’s not where you profit on high demand low supply.

Every where else, absolutely. There are 25 tridents and 100 people want one, by all means sell it for what you can.

I saw someone say this is a community and you shouldn’t do that to each other. Okay cool, I saw someone with 50+ jawbreakers in his tank. He certainly wasn’t inviting me over to pick up my freebee.

So then let’s look at torches and bounces. Those things are ridiculously priced. Why? Because they are hard to find, aka rare aka low supply high demand. No different than a trident. But no one tares down a torch post.

Oh and I saw somewhere else R2R admins saying they are looking at price gouging policy. Ummmm no. you can enforce the forum rules on posting about price, you can create a marketplace and collect a fee, but you can’t limit what people sell things for. That would be about the fastest I have ever left an organization and stopped a contribution. I also think there are a few laws that prevent this

 

[danoo]

So then let’s look at torches and bounces. Those things are ridiculously priced. Why? Because they are hard to find, aka rare aka low supply high demand. No different than a trident. But no one tares down a torch post.

It is different for so many reasons.

A person selling a coral is generally selling a product they created themselves (IE grew), that has a completely unique size and shape, whose quality is directly tied to the unique practices the seller uses to maintain their system. Because of all of these inherent differences in each coral, is very obvious why every coral could cost vastly different amounts, and it would be impossible to say what price is "right" or "wrong". This is pure market making. Obviously there are still areas where a person could be nice and sell/trade/give away corals for less than their true market price, but it is really hard to make the argument that anybody is selling any individual coral at a wrong or unfair price.

A Trident is a standard product that has a "right" price, the retail price. We know it is the right price because it is the price at which authorized retailers are forced to sell it at. The scalpers are not creating the Tridents, they are taking them out of the hands of other customers and then re-selling it back to them for a higher price.

So in summary:
- A person selling corals they propagated at whatever price they want is completely fine, good for the hobby, and nice
- A person re-selling a Trident they purchased with the intent to re-sell at above the retail price is fine, but isn't nice or good for the hobby as a whole

Everybody who is reselling Tridents should just own the behavior, and count the money in their pocket. Stop dragging other people through the mud. People creating and selling propagated corals are doing a huge service to the hobby, no matter what price they are choosing. Neptune probably is doing everything they can to manufacture Tridents as quickly as possible. The retailers are doing the best they can in a tough situation.

 

[GK3]

It is different for so many reasons.

A person selling a coral is generally selling a product they created themselves (IE grew), that has a completely unique size and shape, whose quality is directly tied to the unique practices the seller uses to maintain their system. Because of all of these inherent differences in each coral, is very obvious why every coral could cost vastly different amounts, and it would be impossible to say what price is "right" or "wrong". This is pure market making. Obviously there are still areas where a person could be nice and sell/trade/give away corals for less than their true market price, but it is really hard to make the argument that anybody is selling any individual coral at a wrong or unfair price.

A Trident is a standard product that has a "right" price, the retail price. We know it is the right price because it is the price at which authorized retailers are forced to sell it at. The scalpers are not creating the Tridents, they are taking them out of the hands of other customers and then re-selling it back to them for a higher price.

So in summary:
- A person selling corals they propagated at whatever price they want is completely fine and nice
- A person re-selling a Trident they purchased with the intent to re-sell at above the retail price is fine, but isn't nice

Everybody who is reselling Tridents should just own the behavior, and count the money in their pocket. Stop dragging other people through the mud. People creating and selling propagated corals are doing a huge service to the hobby, no matter what price they are choosing. Neptune probably is doing everything they can to manufacture Tridents as quickly as possible. The retailers are doing the best they can in a tough situation.

Sorry if this sounds too direct, but I don’t agree.

It would only be different if the “corals” were an original piece of art from that person where they could limit the existence in the market. They aren’t. I totally disagree with your distinction. An Ausi gold torch from bob is the same as an ausi gold torch from sheila. Genetically identical. Only difference is health and growth. So you may have some that are preferable over others, but not to where it creates the price swing in the market we see today.

what if Neptune said we are only going to produce 30 tridents per year. Would the “right” price be $1800 then? The only reason it’s the so called “right” price is because Neptune looked at the market, assessed the demand, assessed what they had in the product, and decided how long they wanted to take to recoup costs based on estimated sales. So because they arbitrarily set a price based on their objectives, not on short term high demand low supply of a product, that makes it the “right” price that everyone has to abide by?

Lastly, no company can force another company to sell a product at a given price. It’s called price fixing. It’s illegal in the US. There is literally nothing stopping your LFS from charging $100000000 for a trident other than Neptune finding out and cutting them off the supply list.

Basically what your saying is if I glue a piece of GSP on top of my trident, let it grow a little, that is unique to me and I can sell it for whatever. But a trident with no GSP has to be sold for $600.

 

[danoo]

Sorry if this sounds too direct, but I don’t agree.

It would only be different if the “corals” were an original piece of art from that person where they could limit the existence in the market. They aren’t. I totally disagree with your distinction. An Ausi gold torch from bob is the same as an ausi gold torch from sheila. Genetically identical. Only difference is health and growth. So you may have some that are preferable over others, but not to where it creates the price swing in the market we see today.

what if Neptune said we are only going to produce 30 tridents per year. Would the “right” price be $1800 then? The only reason it’s the so called “right” price is because Neptune looked at the market, assessed the demand, assessed what they had in the product, and decided how long they wanted to take to recoup costs based on estimated sales. So because they arbitrarily set a price based on their objectives, not on short term high demand low supply of a product, that makes it the “right” price that everyone has to abide by?

Lastly, no company can force another company to sell a product at a given price. It’s called price fixing. It’s illegal in the US. There is literally nothing stopping your LFS from charging $100000000 for a trident other than Neptune finding out and cutting them off the supply list.

Basically what your saying is if I glue a piece of GSP on top of my trident, let it grow a little, that is unique to me and I can sell it for whatever. But a trident with no GSP has to be sold for $600.

A manufacturer can absolutely legally force retailers to sell their products at specific prices. That isn't price fixing. Price fixing would be if Neptune and all their competitors all agreed to sell their automated Alkalinity testing machines for the same price.

And corals are unique individual art forms! They are all different. Health and growth are important! The source is important! I do woodworking as a side hobby, and take commissions from time to time. If somebody wants me to make them a fancy coffee table, I might charge $5000 for it. Another person might charge $500 for the same type of table. By choosing me, they are going to be (from my perspective) guaranteed a high level of service, craftsmanship and support. Maybe the other person charging $500 isn't as skilled. Maybe she is. Maybe that table is a much much better deal than mine. That doesn't mean I'm wrong to charge $5000. I'm offering a unique product and service for $5000 that a potential buyer can evaluate themselves.

Selling a Trident isn't a unique service. In fact it is so not-unique that the manufacturer has authorized a group of retailers to do the selling for them as long as they agree to the rules which standardize the process!

The reason the coral comparison doesn't make sense is that because every coral is different and every seller is different, so you can't arbitrarily say one deal is good and one isn't. Maybe I value getting a pest-free coral so much that I'll pay double or triple the price of another person. That is my decision as a consumer. Maybe to you every aussie gold torch is the same. Maybe you are right! You buy the cheaper one and save a bunch of money! Everybody is happy with their decisions.

For the Trident situation, we are *always* comparing the reseller experience to the intended default experience. IE buying the product from an authorized retailer at retail price. There is no situation in which the consumer would rather buy a product with a voided warranty at above retail prices from an unauthorized reseller than just go with the manufacturer intended sales experience.

Now obviously we can see there are a lot of people who prefer to buy Tridents at higher than retail prices from unauthorized sellers rather than not get one at all. This fact doesn't do anything to change the underlying fact that buying a Trident to resell it is both a) bad for the hobby as a whole and b) isn't nice. These facts would be true if there were 1 Trident, 30 Tridents or 300,000.

 

[HB AL]

This should be fun, assuming it doesn’t get pulled.

I see tons of for sale threads on people with Neptune Tridents and they are selling them for $200+ above retail. There are people who say how unfair and wrong this is. Others think it’s okay.

What do you think, is this okay?

Absolutely fine, genius’s if they are actually getting 200$ more for them, wish I woulda known the demand for them was what it is I woulda bought a bunch and cashed in if that’s the case. No different than what online coral vendors charge for a tiny frag of a “ named coral “ some of which don’t even look like anything special, obviously people are paying the ridiculous prices since the prices seem to be going up. Was just browsing some sites looking specifically at Acro frags, and was tripping on what a generic 1/2 inch frag sells for let alone one that looks good, holy smokes, 75$ to 150$ for just some average looking “new” Acro with no type of lineage. Glad I have a couple nice lfs within a few miles from me where I can get the same average frags but larger in size for 15$ to 30 bucks. Not to mention the price of fish online compared to the lfs's, oh and add in the shipping costs too. Example a 1 inch green slimmer frag for 55$ + 35$ shipping costs, that’s 90 bucks for a 1 inch green slimmer, but I guess for people that don’t have any lfs around they don’t have a choice really. Although if you shop around from non big name vendors there are some decent priced corals to be had. Looking to retire in a few years and sell corals for relatively cheap prices for the fun of it and for a little extra income once I have the time to put into a small operation.

 

[Eder]

Can’t believe we’re still talking about this.....guys. The housing market is HOT! Last year we sold our home in 2 days at 10k over asking price and guess what....we didn’t feel bad at all! Many wanted it that bad! What’s the difference? There’s only one of my home and we had 15 offers....[emoji2369]

I don’t see it.