SW Mixing Station Container Upgrade (Drawbacks of Large Containers?)

[thewbell]

I am currently using a pair of stacked Brute trash cans with a Mag Drive (7 i think?) to mix and pump the water to my display tank. The mixing station is outside under a large eave tucked behind bushes (no direct light) and I currently have 1/4" lines run from the mixing station to my tank for ATO (apex controlled with dosing pump) and another line for a future AWC setup. This setup works pretty well but I have come across many occasions where 30 gallons of FW or SW goes quick and I end up having to wait for either the RODI to refill or mix more SW. This has been a minor annoyance since I upgraded to my 120 gallon tank but never quite bad enough to drive me to upgrade until now. During the flood my SW tank floated and moved around which stressed some of the PVC and caused a few very slow leaks in the system. Being outside, this is not fatal but leads to even more water usage. This has driven me to go ahead and look into upgrading both tanks and my plumbing.
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I have been searching CL for some suitable tanks and it looks like I can pick up some 35-55 gallon food grade drums for roughly the same price as some IBC (275 gallon) totes. I would obviously thoroughly clean either container and ensure that nothing is left that may harm my tank. It would probably take me a few months to go through the 275 gallon tanks BUT the water would all be ready in the event of a large water change (or series) and I would never have to plan ahead to make up a QT tank like I do with my current system. Are their any drawbacks to going to very large RODI and SW containers that I should be aware of?

I should also mention that the plan is to run an external pump (either a spare Mag 9 or pump yet to be purchased) to get more flow for better mixing and quicker filling.

 

[vic5hands]

How do you get away with the frost and how do you heat to correct temp if you are dealing with the weather.

 

[thewbell]

We only freeze maybe one or two nights a year and my typical water change is 5 gallons every few days so the temperature is minimal impact. In the event of a large water change however, I would need to install heaters in the SW tank to keep it at a reasonable temperature.

 

[ShellSea]

I have read about alkaline numbers dropping over time which may need to compensated for. I keep about 30 gallons and do nightly 1 gallon change my dose additive compensates for any decline by end of month. Good luck! Go for it.

 

[mcarroll]

The only thing I can imagine to worry about would be the light, heat and temperature variations of the outside causing something to bloom, algae-, bacteria- or mold-wise. Otherwise I think I'd vote to go as big as you can/what makes sense.

In case you can use the info in the re-design, pumps laying in the bottom of a tank is one of the worst ways to mix saltwater – it takes the longest and seems the most likely (along with airstones) to leave salt residue in the tank. If you need to use a pump, it really needs to be oriented to aim at the bottom of the mixing container where the salt settles – ideally from the top of the container, or at least a good distance off the bottom. A seriously lo-fi mixing paddle works equally well and can be much simpler to use. (Once saltwater is mixed, it does not require continuous mixing.) Then your pump can be dedicated to delivery.

2¢

 

[thewbell]

The potential for light has me somewhat concerned with the IBC totes as they are white and will allow light in. Even though they are never in direct sunlight I'm not sure if this would cause an issue. On the other hand, I can get some food grade 55 gallon barrels without much searching for $35 each ($50 each for IBC) and they are blue so light penetration should be much less.

That is good advice on the mixing setup as I frequently have to manually stir my current tank due to salt settling on the bottom. I will have to get creative on the plumbing design this time to make sure I can get good mixing (discharge at the bottom) but still be able to pump the reservoir dry.

 

[mcarroll]

Regular pumps just aren't that good at it....I've seen a lot of tries, so be prepared to do some experimenting if the first iteration is only so-so. At minimum I would use a propeller pump for the mixing....or a manual mixing paddle.

If you're used to some of the process being manual anyway, this is really a good use of manual power IMO since it's also maybe the most efficient method. You stand there for 5 minutes stirring is the only real downside.

Manual does kinda rule out closed-top/small-opening containers like IBC totes though....gotta be able to get in there with some elbow grease.

I like olive/pickle barrels. Screw closure, whole-top opening, opaque for food preservation. I supposed you could link multiple if you really need larger total volume.

 

[mcarroll]

Will link up the mixing videos I made....it's only mixing 5 gallons since I was doing a water change every day, but the same dynamics apply to 150 or 300 gallons. (I do the same in a 55 gallon pickel barrel now, but I think it does take a little more than 5 minutes now.)

 

[mcarroll]

Excerpt from another thread:
"During my A Water Change A Day thread I did a boatload of testing on different mixing methods, including several pumps/pump positions. Post #30 was the first appearance. Here's where I decided: #273 Here's where I started recommending: #278 And here the video's begin: #301 #306 (There's some good discussion on and links to automatic water change systems in that thread too!)"

 

[thewbell]

Excerpt from another thread:
"During my A Water Change A Day thread I did a boatload of testing on different mixing methods, including several pumps/pump positions. Post #30 was the first appearance. Here's where I decided: #273 Here's where I started recommending: #278 And here the video's begin: #301 #306 (There's some good discussion on and links to automatic water change systems in that thread too!)"

Wow, thank you for all of the information. I will do some reading and try to make sure I make the best decisions this time around.

 

[Idoc]

Excerpt from another thread:
"During my A Water Change A Day thread I did a boatload of testing on different mixing methods, including several pumps/pump positions. Post #30 was the first appearance. Here's where I decided: #273 Here's where I started recommending: #278 And here the video's begin: #301 #306 (There's some good discussion on and links to automatic water change systems in that thread too!)"

I don't think I've ever spent so much time just looking down into a bucket of water, lol. But loved the video!! I'm assuming you have one awesome mixing spatula now for the pickle barrels! Since the mixing is probably done best with the "swirling" motion, have you tried just putting a powerhead on the side of the pickle barrel and angling it to create a constant vortex swirling in the barrel...kind of like what is occuring with the spatula?

Now the only question would be...if you swirl the water clockwise in the northern hemisphere, would it swirl counter-clockwise in the southern hemisphere, haha!

 

[mcarroll]

Did you see both vids? The pump method I showed does just about what you described.

I still use the same (36") paddle for the pickle barrel, but it takes a bit longer. (It's >10x the volume, so spending 7 minutes mixing vs 5 isn't a big deal. LOL I have only done two or three water changes with the pickle barrels, so I actually haven't timed it yet.

 

[Idoc]

Did you see both vids? The pump method I showed does just about what you described.

I still use the same (36") paddle for the pickle barrel, but it takes a bit longer. (It's >10x the volume, so spending 7 minutes mixing vs 5 isn't a big deal. LOL I have only done two or three water changes with the pickle barrels, so I actually haven't timed it yet.

No, I only saw one video...the 5 gal bucket one. But there were so many responses to that thread, it was hard jumping around looking for the specific message number....in truth, once I started in the thread, I could only remember #301, lol. I'll have to go back and take a look at the second video.

 

[mcarroll]

It was every bit as riveting as the first vid! Interesting if you want to mix with a pump though!

Post #306 is what you were missing.

 

[Idoc]

It was every bit as riveting as the first vid! Interesting if you want to mix with a pump though!

Post #306 is what you were missing.

Oh my gosh...the old expression "watching paint dry" or "watching grass grow" has now become "watching salt dissolve in a mcarroll video!" I drifted in and out of consciousness a few times waiting for something exciting to happen, but noticed that you were really itching to get that spatula in there! I see that you couldn't help yourself and had to stick it in there at 1:01, 4:10, and 4:40....lol. I mean, at 4:40, it looks like you did a little with the spatula, but 1:01 was just kind of a quick dunk!

All kidding aside, I thought the pump did a pretty good job! But, I couldn't tell if there was some residual on the bottom. Maybe you should make another video with a combination of a pump AND spatula! Start with the pump to do most of the work and then fly in at the end with the spatula to clean up the residual! But, in a larger pickle barrel, I could see where the pump might not have the power to get it all swirling.