Throwing out the Marine Pure?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy and others who mentioned it lowers Nitrates, I thought that was also disproven by BRS??

While I have never tested it, others have gotten nitrate reduction. I expect that result or not depends on flow through it which is dependent on how you use it in your system.

People also ignore the fact that denitrification needs organics. In a tank that has less natural organic matter, the effects might be different than in one with lots of organics.

 

[Nobbygas]

Thanks. How long after adding it did you wait to take a water sample for Triton?

I usually do an ICP every four months or so.

 

[Cory]

I dont use it but ive seen many posts showing high aluminum from icp after adding marine pure.

Reefkeepers need stop breaking the first golden rule of reefkeeping

"Though shalt not add metals to the tank"

Aluminum oxide is made by oxygen and aluminum. Aluminum oxide isnt soluble in water but unreacted aluminum deep within the pores would likely release aluminum. Imo

 

[tastyfish]

There's certainly an awful lot of anecdotal evidence from folks (we're talking 10-15 that I have seen) running Marine Pure blocks and showing high Aluminium in their ICP tests.

As pointed out earlier, other sources including Aluminium based PO4 removers and salt are other potential sources, however typically it's down to MarinePure or Al PO4 media IME.

Aluminium is fairly easy to remove in a reef tank, using GFO like Rowa and through water changes. This poses more of an issue if following a no water change method where the aluminium levels can build up.

Does the aluminium continue to "leach" constantly? I don't know. But whenever someone asks where their high aluminium is coming from, they nearly always use either Marine Pure blocks or Al PO4 media.

 

[corey01]

I am not too concerned about AL levels as I have ran the blocks and media for a few years now and not noticed any detrimental effects to my fish or corals. but I am curious as to if anyone running pure has noticed when they "stop" leeching AL. wouldn't it get a point after some time where there wasn't any more easily accessible aluminum to distribute in the water?
the blocks aren't made of metal so I would imagine the amount of AL in them to begin with isn't very much.

 

[tastyfish]

I am not too concerned about AL levels as I have ran the blocks and media for a few years now and not noticed any detrimental effects to my fish or corals. but I am curious as to if anyone running pure has noticed when they "stop" leeching AL. wouldn't it get a point after some time where there wasn't any more easily accessible aluminum to distribute in the water?
the blocks aren't made of metal so I would imagine the amount of AL in them to begin with isn't very much.

Are you using GFO (which will help remove Al) or conducting routine, large water changes? Have you had an ICP done to ascertain how much, if any Al may be in your system?

Typically people tend to remove them after seeing the ICP, (some with, some without coral health issues)rather than wait and see, although I've spoken to folks who have had them in their systems for well over a year and still have high aluminium. That could be down to either not testing for it, not removing (via GFO or WC) or continued leaching.

I think it's more of an issue with a closed system where you are not performing water changes, such as Triton, and hence would never use or recommend its use with such methods.

 

[Mark Gray]

I have the small square blocks in my sump,leathers seem ok. My plan is to leave them till I get my new build set up, and I will move a few to the new build for a while just to help seed the tank. Then I guess I will get the out of both tanks. I have not run a triton test on this tank.

 

[corey01]

Are you using GFO (which will help remove Al) or conducting routine, large water changes? Have you had an ICP done to ascertain how much, if any Al may be in your system?

Typically people tend to remove them after seeing the ICP, (some with, some without coral health issues)rather than wait and see, although I've spoken to folks who have had them in their systems for well over a year and still have high aluminium. That could be down to either not testing for it, not removing (via GFO or WC) or continued leaching.

I think it's more of an issue with a closed system where you are not performing water changes, such as Triton, and hence would never use or recommend its use with such methods.

I am not using any GFO with it no. one tank its in is my FOWLR tank. only thing that gets is vodka dosing and quarterly water changes of 70 gallons and once a month-ish I vacuum the gravel. been that way for a few years now everyone seems happy. was even happy when I had my frag tank plumbed into this system.

other tank has no GFO or anything really, my IM25 lagoon. it gets regular water changes. I run some biopellets in it. but other than that just filter floss.

I have never submitted my water to an ICP test. and I am certainly not arguing it dosent leech AL. as its basically proven it does/correlation between MP and AL.
all I am saying is I haven't seen any ill effects from it. And I dont need a test to tell me I have high AL. as then all I will want to do is chase it around when everything is going fine.
same with PH. I don't test for it, havent tested it since idk when maybe I tested when I started the tanks? but if I do I will feel compelled to chase a number around.
and as we know chasing numbers is a good way to screw things up.

 

[tastyfish]

I am not using any GFO with it no. one tank its in is my FOWLR tank. only thing that gets is vodka dosing and quarterly water changes of 70 gallons and once a month-ish I vacuum the gravel. been that way for a few years now everyone seems happy. was even happy when I had my frag tank plumbed into this system.

other tank has no GFO or anything really, my IM25 lagoon. it gets regular water changes. I run some biopellets in it. but other than that just filter floss.

I have never submitted my water to an ICP test. and I am certainly not arguing it dosent leech AL. as its basically proven it does/correlation between MP and AL.
all I am saying is I haven't seen any ill effects from it. And I dont need a test to tell me I have high AL. as then all I will want to do is chase it around when everything is going fine.
same with PH. I don't test for it, havent tested it since idk when maybe I tested when I started the tanks? but if I do I will feel compelled to chase a number around.
and as we know chasing numbers is a good way to screw things up.

Trust what you see with your eyes, but be aware of the trend is the mantra I'm following. I have had very high aluminium levels (270+ ug/l) and witnessed effects on PE on both SPS and soft coral. Coincidentally, or not, SPS appeared pale.

The most worrying aspect is perhaps potential impact of high aluminium and a low pH, which results in the aluminium clinging to and blocking the gills, restricting gas exchange and potentially asphyiating fish. This has been scientifically observed in freshwater, but no studies conducted in saltwater.

This article from 2003 makes interesting reading: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/7/chemistry

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am not too concerned about AL levels as I have ran the blocks and media for a few years now and not noticed any detrimental effects to my fish or corals. but I am curious as to if anyone running pure has noticed when they "stop" leeching AL. wouldn't it get a point after some time where there wasn't any more easily accessible aluminum to distribute in the water?
the blocks aren't made of metal so I would imagine the amount of AL in them to begin with isn't very much.

It's certainly fine to use the blocks if you see no bad effects, and the release of aluminum may slow down for many reasons, but the material is in large part an aluminum ceramic. The aluminum is not a minor ingredient.

 

[corey01]

Oh OK. Didn't realise that. Thought maybe aluminum was simply added as a Minor ingredient. So I guess it would. Never really run out of AL to leech? Oh well I will continue until I have a reason not to.
I will take note however. as I placed MP in my smaller tank from my older tank when I started it up to boost the cycle as I was doing a swap shutting down a system starting with new sand and a few new rocks using one existing rock and I thought adding it would help circumvent any future issues from changing as much as I had so quickly.
theres not much of a reason to keep it there A year later I guess.

 

[ectoaesthetics]

Wish I was testing for aluminum! Sooo thought for any of you with the ability.... Can someone do a few cleaning soaks as we would with just about any other piece of biofiltration that we would put in our tanks and then test for aluminum? I added my MarinePure directly to my tank, but would not have done that with a piece of dry rock -even with marco rock I would cure it. Don't know why I didn't with the MarinePure, but wonder if that would make a difference or if it is a constant leach...

While I appreciate the response by Cermedia, I do find it odd that their claim is that their product reduces aluminum. Especially odd is the fact that if you rinse MarinePure the numbers further decrease. I would love to see someone out there repeat this test (even if just a home) with their own salt and MarinePure.

Who out there can test for aluminum? @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Wish I was testing for aluminum! Sooo thought for any of you with the ability.... Can someone do a few cleaning soaks as we would with just about any other piece of biofiltration that we would put in our tanks and then test for aluminum? I added my MarinePure directly to my tank, but would not have done that with a piece of dry rock -even with marco rock I would cure it. Don't know why I didn't with the MarinePure, but wonder if that would make a difference or if it is a constant leach...

While I appreciate the response by Cermedia, I do find it odd that their claim is that their product reduces aluminum. Especially odd is the fact that if you rinse MarinePure the numbers further decrease. I would love to see someone out there repeat this test (even if just a home) with their own salt and MarinePure.

Who out there can test for aluminum? @Randy Holmes-Farley

The ICP companies test for it, and simple rinsing is likely desirable, but not necessarily preventative of the issue since some folks did rinse first and test the tank later.

 

[chicago]

follwing... as i have 12 of these blocks... still waiting for them to do some denitrification... replaced deep sand bed that went well for years at keeping nitrates down. but that is a story for another thread on removing DSB... Randy,, on ones that reported reduction of Nitrate after installing these ... I assume they were in a low flow zone?

 

[VR28man]

follwing... as i have 12 of these blocks... still waiting for them to do some denitrification... replaced deep sand bed that went well for years at keeping nitrates down. but that is a story for another thread on removing DSB... Randy,, on ones that reported reduction of Nitrate after installing these ... I assume they were in a low flow zone?

The instructions say they need to be in a low flow zone for denitrification.

 

[chicago]

yep... they are in low flow zone... i have 14 of them all forming one large block in my sump.. in low flow area... but no reduction in nitrate... thinking of putting them all some type of rubbermaid boxes so the sides prevent flow and only flow over the top.. i have a large sump...this is all in..

 

[VR28man]

That’s a lot of blocks. I assume that they’re for the recommended volume of display tank? (700 gallons, at least, as I recall).

I believe denitrifination is not something that happens very quickly at all. It may take many months, and, it probably needs a decent amount of biological activity for it to happen. As in, it may not just happen if you just have high nitrates in an otherwise blank tank.

I’m also recall that there are some products which claim to have denitrifying bacteria in them, (so you can dose them) but I don’t recall off the top of my head. If someone started a thread on that, please tag me – I’d be curious.

 

[tastyfish]

That’s a lot of blocks. I assume that they’re for the recommended volume of display tank? (700 gallons, at least, as I recall).

I believe denitrifination is not something that happens very quickly at all. It may take many months, and, it probably needs a decent amount of biological activity for it to happen. As in, it may not just happen if you just have high nitrates in an otherwise blank tank.

I’m also recall that there are some products which claim to have denitrifying bacteria in them, (so you can dose them) but I don’t recall off the top of my head. If someone started a thread on that, please tag me – I’d be curious.

Siporax users are told to keep the siporax in the dark if they want to encourage denitrifying bacteria. Perhaps this might be an idea in addition to dosing some of the more complete bacterial solutions, such as FM UltraBio?

 

[chicago]

FM UltraBio? I will check into this.. thanks

 

[VR28man]

Brightwell Microbacter 7 also claims, iirc, to have denitrifiers. Though it does not sound to be as concentrated as FM Ultrabio.

Unfortunately for me, I’m not sure that the latter is distributed in the US.