Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

[A_Blind_Reefer]

My understanding in this type of situation, is that conditional is basically requiring more data but otherwise approved unless said data is not submitted. I think the original link provided regarding epa conditional registration has nothing to do with this type of situation, and that this is actually common practice. I could be wrong as I am more often than not these days. Link below

Edit. Note the quote me too clause

Another edit. Not a fanboy or defending in any way, quite the opposite, just throwing this out there as I’m thinking it’s not going to be as big of a deal as we hoped

Last edit. I find it humorous that in all the marketing lingo shown on the original link, there was no quote new and improved, new formula, or now includes poly, polychronopolis! Ha

Conditional Pesticide Registration | US EPA

FIFRA section 3(c)(7) authorizes EPA to conditionally register pesticides under certain well-defined circumstances. Find information about pesticide conditional registration.

www.epa.gov

 

[Doctorgori]

I will talk it over with the admin team. There are a couple of good reasons that we don't allow members to threaten lawsuits using our platform to do so.



1. We removed them as a sponsors and cancelled their payments once we found out what was possibly going on. Even before it was verified as true.

2. We allowed these conversations to take place here without impeding.

We will discuss this next week. There are other platforms, venues and ways for people to do what you are suggesting.

You can secretly admit to us there is a small “entertainment” flavor to these threads …
we won’t tell anyone if you do

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

As per our TOS, talk of lawsuits and comments that are directed personally at people are not permitted. I realize you are frustrated but please abide by the TOS. Thanks.

Terms and rules

You must agree to these terms and rules before using the site.

www.reef2reef.com

Have you seen any of the insert tank manufactures name seam leak threads? Ha

 

[MnFish1]

Tell us you didn’t read any of the links or following posts without telling us you didn’t read the links or following posts



Give it a rest. Vibrant is polyquat. Vibrant is AlgaeFix. Vibrant is Busan 77. They’ve admitted it. Game over. You can stop protecting UWC. Facts are facts. Listen to them.

I was talking about the legal aspects - not whether it was polyquat or not. So - perhaps you should read what I wrote. I have said for a long time that I agree with assumption that vibrant contains an algicide. I just said calling it a pesticide is a non-issue. Pesticides can be bacteria also. I didn't say I believe in any of the ingredients of vibrant

 

[MnFish1]

Did you write that before reading the pdf, or despite it?

Correct - I could not see the pdf what I wrote what I wrote.

 

[rtparty]

I was talking about the legal aspects - not whether it was polyquat or not. So - perhaps you should read what I wrote. I have said for a long time that I agree with assumption that vibrant contains an algicide. I just said calling it a pesticide is a non-issue. Pesticides can be bacteria also. I didn't say I believe in any of the ingredients of vibrant

“Many here have accepted” “fully willing to accept”

Both statements leave you out. Why not say “many of us have accepted” or “I’ve fully accepted”?

You then say the contents aren’t mentioned. Yet, they are either in jda’s post or the dozen or so after that clearly listed the new ingredients.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The most likely explanation is that it was developed by a biotech firm contracted by UWC. I personally don't expect scientific/technical explanations from the owner because the people "in charge" don't always know the nuances of what they're talking about when it comes to process. However, I did land on the topic of cyanophycin because of this comment.

It might be time for you to recognize that your highly contorted lines of reasoning to explain the Vibrant experiments were unnecessary and, as Occam's razor would suggest, the simplest explanation was true after all: it was the polyquat that all of the tests showed.

 

[jda]

I know that you do not expect a response, but free VPN trials are only like 30 days.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I know that you do not expect a response, but free VPN trials are only like 30 days.

Is Guerrilla mail still a thing? Ha

 

[jda]

This is the company who submitted the registration for UWC. KRK Consulting, LLC.

EPA Registration | KRK Consulting LLC - The Leading Authority on EPA Pesticide Registrations

Afraid the EPA might fine you? Sick of all the hassle? With US you don't have to be one of THEM! Get your EPA registration done right the first time! Partner with the team that boasts a 97% Guaranteed success rate!

www.eparegistration.com

The EPA Penalties section is an interesting read. There are many products in there with heavy fines that are still selling products today - some of them are huge conglomerates. This mostly appears as advertising for why a company should use KRK, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[jeffww]

judging by that website. Making false claims regarding the contents of your bottle wins you a bigger spanking.

 

[kaifish]

Wow. A couple years ago I was having algae issues and decided to dose vibrant according to the instructions. Within about a week and a half I began having RTN on several mature colonies of Acropora which lead to loosening several large colonies of acros. I did a daily phosphate test and although it dropped while dosing it was within an acceptable range. I immediately stopped dosing and did several large water changes and added carbon didn’t have any additional issues. I always believed it was the vibrant but couldn’t understand how adding bacteria could cause such an issue. I guess adding an algaecyde is more plausible.

 

[taricha]

When JDA posted (on 8/5/23) the EPA conditional registration document[pdf] listing the correct ingredient for Vibrant, their website still listed their old label "ingredient list"



And nothing else on their website had changed in the 1.5yr since this thread was posted and they listed everything "Out of stock"

That is no longer the case. Since 8/5 they seem to have removed all reference to bacteria from their website info on Vibrant, and no longer list any ingredients at all for Vibrant.

This was to be expected as the registration document states:

In short, UWC website no longer makes any claims that Vibrant is bacterial, and removed all references to such in the last month, after the EPA conditional registration.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

When JDA posted (on 8/5/23) the EPA conditional registration document[pdf] listing the correct ingredient for Vibrant, their website still listed their old label "ingredient list"



And nothing else on their website had changed in the 1.5yr since this thread was posted and they listed everything "Out of stock"

That is no longer the case. Since 8/5 they seem to have removed all reference to bacteria from their website info on Vibrant, and no longer list any ingredients at all for Vibrant.

This was to be expected as the registration document states:

In short, UWC website no longer makes any claims that Vibrant is bacterial, and removed all references to such in the last month, after the EPA conditional registration.

Interesting. Thanks for the update and info.

 

[ingchr1]

Went back to read some posts that UWC made along the way.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this as I already have once before, but I will say you are spreading a lot of false information and I have seen you do it multiple times across the forum.

There is a shelf life, three years. The bacteria are processed by flash freezing and are dormant. They are not live bacteria and because of the way they are processed for bottling, they bottles can have a long shelf life. They are processed this way to be able to handle extreme high and low temperatures throughout the year.

It does not multiply in our tanks and does need to be added in increments, this is standard for many bacterial products ( AF, Probidio, Zeovit, Brightwells, Red Sea, Etc. just to name a few ).

You can find it under a microscope, You just need the right gear. This is not some brown gunky type, stinky bacteria that most people think of when they they think of bottled bacteria. I never said anything to you about culturing in our tanks, what I did say to you was, culture the bacteria and see what you end up with. This will give you a better idea of what bacteria strains are present. A few people have studied Vibrant pretty extensively and there are videos on YouTube showing the cultures, etc. Jason2459 Did some pretty extensive studies with it here on R2R in his biology thread with videos, etc. as well.

As for the dosing instructions, 1ml times x amount whether it be 10 gallons or 25 gallons is pretty much the gold standard for aquarium additives and dosages. As for snails and urchins dieing, that is just not true from Vibrant. What can cause snails and urchins to die are toxic strains of dino die off or the release of heavy metals, toxins, etc. being released into the water as the algaes are being consumed. This is like a one and ten thousand usage case, far from common.

I would love to see these essays if you would be so kind to put me into touch with this gentlemen

You know what's odd. I've never seen any of you at the facility where Vibrant is made. I really don't need to spell anything out on a open forum. Maybe you all should research Algecide bacteria abstract. Where the bacteria are filtered out and discarded and the (edit) extract is used. All created by BACTERIA.

The group we work with has submitted into the ASM Microbe abstract and awards for early 2022. Once things have been presented. I will gladly post up a bunch of info on our site.

Hey All,

I will not go into details about the bacteria strains, but will touch on a few points that have been brought up about things people seem to be confused by. For those that are really curious, there are some pretty in depth videos on Youtube where people have cultured out the bacterias.

Vinegar - Vinegar is used as a preservative in the bottle.

3.5% Other Ingredients - This is just RO/DI water

Why can you run GAC and GFO? - Algae's can contain many contaminants, toxic metals, etc. Using GAC can help absorb these. GFO can be used as needed to keep nutrients under control.

Why can you continue to use your protein skimmer and UV? - We tested for a long time with both UV and no UV systems and the results were always the same. We found that having a UV running did not affect the way Vibrant performed. Same thing for running a protein skimmer - A protein skimmer does not affect the way Vibrant performs.

Totally fine! We are in Minnesota, so we deal with extreme cold and heat here This is one of the issues we had to consider when we started bottling. Basically the way the bacteria are flash frozen and processed, they can handle extreme heat and freezing temps and will be ok. If your bottle arrived frozen, just let it sit out and return back to room temperature on its own before use

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Went back to read some posts that UWC made along the way.

Yeah, talking out of both sides of his mouth...
"They are not live bacteria..." , yet, he repeatedly refers to people culturing it, lol!

 

[a.t.t.r]

Went back to read some posts that UWC made along the way.

Yep. All these post indicate he knew exactly what it was and could not keep his lies straight.


I still wanna send them a bill for the hell his product released on my tank. I know it would not be paid but sending an invoice is still fun.

 

[Trickman2]

Whatever happened to this in the end? Still seems like Vibrant is still running around stores.

 

[Seneca]

Whatever happened to this in the end? Still seems like Vibrant is still running around stores.

All the people that lost 1000s of dollars worth of livestock (in addition to the cost of the product itself) due to vibrant's fraud didn't sue them apparently.

So they get to keep operating.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not know why some stores still sell it. It is still not sold at the UWC web site. Maybe the EPA did not force a recall, just a relabeling as a pesticide. False advertising is not an EPA mandate.