Urgent!! Do I have ich or velvet?

125mph · Apr 10, 2017

The PT has it the worse, the regal angel is very faint.. The potters angel is faint too. However, the potter's angel is completely separated and housed with a small 2" clownfish -- definitely no aggression there.

The only fish in the system that doesn't have the eye marks are the clownfish.. but their eyes are tiny.. All 3 are between 1.5-2" only.

Humblefish · Apr 10, 2017

125mph said:
The PT has it the worse, the regal angel is very faint.. The potters angel is faint too. However, the potter's angel is completely separated and housed with a small 2" clownfish -- definitely no aggression there.

The only fish in the system that doesn't have the eye marks are the clownfish.. but their eyes are tiny.. All 3 are between 1.5-2" only.

Are you sure it's not Lympho growing on the outside of their eyeballs?

125mph · Apr 10, 2017

That could be it. No other explanation. Its definitely on the outside of the eyeball. Not inside.

Humblefish said:
Are you sure it's not Lympho growing on the outside of their eyeballs?

4FordFamily · Apr 10, 2017

I'm perplexed, I will say that sometimes with meds especially copper tangs and angels can get some cloudy eyes but it tends to heal quickly if it's minor. If it's not worsening perhaps that's good news. Not sure how it can look like flukes but stranger things have probably happened :shrug:

125mph · Apr 13, 2017

Well guys, I thought I'd write an update.. The fish are in observation tank right now. They've been in off medication since Sunday and its Thursday now, so almost 5 days. No scratching, no head shaking and spots yet. I'm still very nervous it will come back in a week or two so I'm taking very close observation. The regal does have a minor twitch and I cant tell if this is normal or if it's something else. However, when this whole thing started he was scratching all the time and he isn't scratching right now... so who knowz.

I learned a lot during this routine. I had a few deaths and I think it was the medication.

1.) I lost the melanurus wrasse and the mystery wrasse. I believe the mystery wrasse died due to CP while the melanurus died due to the mixture of CP and General Cure. (He was doing fine with CP but the day I added General Cure, he was toast.)

2.) Lost the purple tang. He stopped eating during the 2nd week of CP. When I took them off CP, he had just started eating again so I thought he was going to pull through it. And when trying to diagnosis the white marks, I gave him a fw dip. He was only in there for 4:30 and he's been in multiple fw dips in the past no issues. However, this time, after getting back in the tank he acted very abnormal and then wouldn't move, and died an hour later. Was very strange.

3.) Lost one of the four clowns due to not tolerating paraguard

Still have the potters angel, regal angel, and three picasso clowns. So overall, I know to be very careful with the meds. Sometimes that may be worse then the disease itself.

nervousmonkey · Apr 13, 2017

125mph said:
Well guys, I thought I'd write an update.. The fish are in observation tank right now. They've been in off medication since Sunday and its Thursday now, so almost 5 days. No scratching, no head shaking and spots yet. I'm still very nervous it will come back in a week or two so I'm taking very close observation. The regal does have a minor twitch and I cant tell if this is normal or if it's something else. However, when this whole thing started he was scratching all the time and he isn't scratching right now... so who knowz.

I learned a lot during this routine. I had a few deaths and I think it was the medication.

1.) I lost the melanurus wrasse and the mystery wrasse. I believe the mystery wrasse died due to CP while the melanurus died due to the mixture of CP and General Cure. (He was doing fine with CP but the day I added General Cure, he was toast.)

2.) Lost the purple tang. He stopped eating during the 2nd week of CP. When I took them off CP, he had just started eating again so I thought he was going to pull through it. And when trying to diagnosis the white marks, I gave him a fw dip. He was only in there for 4:30 and he's been in multiple fw dips in the past no issues. However, this time, after getting back in the tank he acted very abnormal and then wouldn't move, and died an hour later. Was very strange.

3.) Lost one of the four clowns due to not tolerating paraguard

Still have the potters angel, regal angel, and three picasso clowns. So overall, I know to be very careful with the meds. Sometimes that may be worse then the disease itself.

I'm sorry you lost so many fish. That part really sucks. You had a *lot* of bad stuff hit you in consecutive and sometimes parallel fashion, but you did a great job. Most people would not have been able to save one fish given the many issues you had. @melypr1985 has an awesome write up of Fish and Treatment Guidelines with a chart showing which fish do well with which meds and which meds are bad for specific fish. It's an awesome chart that I bookmarked and also saved as a PDF. I know it doesn't really help you at this point unless something awful happens again, and you may have seen it already, but for those who have not seen this chart, it will help a LOT in treating fish: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.191/
Thanks for writing that Meredith, and all your helpers as well!
Good luck with all of your other fish 125mph. I hope that they all pull through now.

Cheers!
Lloyd

Humblefish · Apr 13, 2017

@125mph Where did you get your CP from? CP is not safe for wrasses, anthias or Hippo Tangs until more research can be done.

125mph · Apr 13, 2017

Humblefish said:
@125mph Where did you get your CP from? CP is not safe for wrasses, anthias or Hippo Tangs until more research can be done.

I would have liked pharmacy grade but my only source was eBay. It seem to work though but waiting for the full 2 week period to know for sure. I've actually purchased other stuff (dry goods) from the ebay guy and he gives me deep discounts, so I trust his item is what he says... CP is from Fishman chemicals which other large public aquaria use.

One thing that makes me nervous is that.. On Saturday evening which was day 16, I decided to run carbon to remove the CP and go into observation mode.. Then on Sunday, I decided that wasn't wise and I should put them all in a sterile tank instead. So I set up another 20G and moved the fish there.. So for about 15 hours (between Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon), the CP was at sub 60mg/gal. If there was any swimmers, they could have attached.

125mph · Apr 15, 2017

Currently day 6 in holding/observation tank. I don't see any spots on any fish. They're all breathing normal too.

I've been observing very closely. The regal angel was been twitching a little over the last few days but nothing like before. I thought the parasite came back but the lack of scratching, lack of head shaking and no white spots.... I keep second guessing if the treatment worked.

If the parasite comes back I should see the white spots by the second week? And heavy breathing? Or could they be immune and show little signs but be a carrier? The last time the fish were impacted much faster, within days. I might observe for a full month to be sure.

Humblefish · Apr 15, 2017

125mph said:
If the parasite comes back I should see the white spots by the second week? And heavy breathing? Or could they be immune and show little signs but be a carrier? The last time the fish were impacted much faster, within days. I might observe for a full month to be sure.

I would rely more on behavioral symptoms (flashing, scratching, head twitching, heavy breathing) than physical ones.

125mph · Apr 27, 2017

So my dback cp comes tomorrow. I've been treating them with eBay cp and I started doing TTM with eBay CP to clear off any free swimmers. I just noticed the regal twitching and head shaking. But no white spots.

One thing is his eyes definitely has translucent white marks. They went away a few days ago but now it's back. I'm sure whatever it is, this is related.

What can cause eye marks besides flukes? Same as the PT and the potters angel pic I posted.

I'm starting to doubt I have velvet or brook. Maybe I had it and the cp cured it but now is something else that cp doesn't cure?