10ft tall cylindrical reef tank?

[StaircasetoHeaven]

I am here to get input, tell me why you think the project could turn into a maintenance nightmare. So currently the project is conceived as a 7 or 10 ft tall, 4 ft wide cylindrical aquarium, with fake center coral insert around center overflow. The sump, pumps, chillers, etc will be located in the garage below. A pre-mixing tank, automation/monitoring system will be below. Water changes will all be accomplished in garage below. The portion of the tank on both sides of a 5" wall that separates the living room from the staircase side will have a canopy which can be opened to gain access to lighting and to gain access to the tank via telescoping arm. In the living room, the top of the tank is about 6 ft off the floor. In the staircase, the top of the tank will be over 10 ft off the surface and can be accessed if necessary via a 15 ft telescoping 400 lb capacity aluminum ladder. I am hoping that access to the interior of the tank should not be necessary other than to retrieve dead fish or potential broken pieces of artificial coral. I intend to put some type of blind in the tall rectangular window(s) to block sunlight stimulating algae growth during the daylight hours. The tank will be placed via the garage and cutting a rectangle in garage wall that sits between staircase and living room (Yes undoubtedly, I expect a structural engineer will evaluate and structural work may be needed.) The tank would be placed on an approximate 6 ft tall steel stand. Assuming that algae can be cleaned via magnet cleaners and water changes can be achieved without getting wet via turning valves in the garage, what other maintenance issues do you see?

 

[StaircasetoHeaven]

I didn't know where to begin. This sums it up.

Please see recent concept as the reef has been rejected as a viable option. I WANT to hear thoughts on why the current concept is not doable, not practical, unmanageable etc.

 

[Dom]

Please see recent concept as the reef has been rejected as a viable option. I WANT to hear thoughts on why the current concept is not doable, not practical, unmanageable etc.

The first thing I thought of was lighting. How do you provide ample PAR to the bottom of the tank for coral to thrive?

Next is maintenance. Some maintenance can be accomplished by using using tools on extendable poles. But at 10 feet, I can't see achieving ample husbandry without entering the tank. You would need to calculate the amount of displacement associated with you entering the tank and add that much unfilled space to the overall height of the tank. If not, you will flood the room as you climb in.

I think this could be an interesting FOWLER tank. But as a reef tank, I don't believe you will have much success.

I'm also wondering where drain and return lines would be placed. As a showpiece, you wouldn't want drain and return lines outside the tank. The only option I see would be to come up through the bottom of the tank, with your sump and other equipment in the basement. Which leads to my next concern, supporting all of the weight.

You most definitely would need to reinforce your floor with a tank of this size. And if there is no basement where does all of your support equipment go?

This is a huge undertaking, and I am skeptical by nature. I'm all for a monster tank, but the unique design of this tank makes for many challenges.

 

[StaircasetoHeaven]

"The first thing I thought of was lighting. How do you provide ample PAR to the bottom of the tank for coral to thrive?"

A reef tank has been rejected due to concerns with adequate lighting, access, more difficult cleaning, etc. I had the concept of having lighting which would be placed the entire length of the sides of the tank. I still think this would work. The tank builder stated that the corals would grow "weird," which may be possible but I rejected the reef idea mainly for the increase need for physical access to place/care for corals and cleaning, and the mess access to the tank would entail, even if possible.

"Next is maintenance. Some maintenance can be accomplished by using using tools on extendable poles. But at 10 feet, I can't see achieving ample husbandry without entering the tank. You would need to calculate the amount of displacement associated with you entering the tank and add that much unfilled space to the overall height of the tank. If not, you will flood the room as you climb in."

No live corals planned; thus no care of live corals needed. I have no plans to enter the tank or have others enter the tank.


"I'm also wondering where drain and return lines would be placed. As a showpiece, you wouldn't want drain and return lines outside the tank. The only option I see would be to come up through the bottom of the tank, with your sump and other equipment in the basement. Which leads to my next concern, supporting all of the weight."

The tank would require welded steel stand which sits on foundation. Yes drain and/or return lines in bulkhead in bottom of tank. Also because the tank placed and penetrates a 5" dividing wall between the living room and the foyer/staircase, electric/plumbing can also traverse from the garage to the top of the tank concealed from view in this wall on one or both sides of the tank. Even if I dont currently have plans to use the walls as pathways for plumbing/electric I would definitely have conduit placed when the walls are open and easily accessible.

"You most definitely would need to reinforce your floor with a tank of this size. And if there is no basement where does all of your support equipment go."

Most/all equipment planned for garage, which is located under the living room. There is also significant space in the curved drywalled area under the tank.

"This is a huge undertaking, and I am skeptical by nature. I'm all for a monster tank, but the unique design of this tank makes for many challenges."

Again I want to hear faults in my concept/plan; that is why I am here.

 

[danreef55]

I was glad to hear that you decided against corals.
Metal halide lights can penetrate to 10' if fish only. There has been some talk about the availability of halide bulbs.
as far as maintenance goes bear in mind that where coralline do NOT grow you will get some green algae not necessarily green hair algae. This will detract from the aesthetics of the tank. You should plan on using a pressure washer to clean the coral insert.

Also consider that treatment of any fish disease will require in tank treatment because you are not going to be able to remove the affected fish do to depth and diameter.

 

[BristleWormHater]

Nice place

 

[Kevin@Nemos]

70 new items by Kevin Luc

photos.app.goo.gl

We did a 4ft x 4ft cylinder build recently. Here is a massive photo/video dump of the build. If you have any questions let me know. 10ft is a monster. At 4 ft we couldn't even maneuver around once the rocks were in place.

I didn't read your entire thread. But thought I'd chime in if you needed some help.

 

[StaircasetoHeaven]

70 new items by Kevin Luc

photos.app.goo.gl

We did a 4ft x 4ft cylinder build recently. Here is a massive photo/video dump of the build. If you have any questions let me know. 10ft is a monster. At 4 ft we couldn't even maneuver around once the rocks were in place.

I didn't read your entire thread. But thought I'd chime in if you needed some help.

Hi Kevin. Thanks for chiming in and your willingness to give your help!
Yes I would love to pick your brain and your experience since your tank is the same planned width and at a depth of 4 ft likely have the same problems as in a deeper tank. Firstly, how are you cleaning your tank? (I see a magnet cleaner in one of the photos). I am assuming you do not and do not plan to physically enter the tank for any type of cleaning or maintenance? How have you, or how do you plan to clean coralline algae? How thick is your tank? Seamed or unseamed? What is pictured with all the blue and red tubing? I see a neptune system automation system; happy with it? Do you have a drain in the floor or at least a catch pan for inevitable spills/leaks in the lower cabinet? Is the aquarium pre-plumbed from the floor with plumbing and electric? Do you have a separate area containing tanks for pre-mixing saltwater for water changes? How much and how frequent do you do water changes? What would you do differently? Undoubtedly I will have more questions if you are willing to answer. Thanks!

 

[StaircasetoHeaven]

Hi Kevin. Thanks for chiming in and your willingness to give your help!
Yes I would love to pick your brain and your experience since your tank is the same planned width and at a depth of 4 ft likely have the same problems as in a deeper tank. Firstly, how are you cleaning your tank? (I see a magnet cleaner in one of the photos). I am assuming you do not and do not plan to physically enter the tank for any type of cleaning or maintenance? How have you, or how do you plan to clean coralline algae? How thick is your tank? Seamed or unseamed? What is pictured with all the blue and red tubing? I see a neptune system automation system; happy with it? Do you have a drain in the floor or at least a catch pan for inevitable spills/leaks in the lower cabinet? Is the aquarium pre-plumbed from the floor with plumbing and electric? Do you have a separate area containing tanks for pre-mixing saltwater for water changes? How much and how frequent do you do water changes? What would you do differently? Undoubtedly I will have more questions if you are willing to answer. Thanks!

 

[StaircasetoHeaven]

Here is my bad photoshop to give at least a rough idea of concept and view of tank from staircase. My guess is that the scale is not way off from what it would be in reality.

 

[StaircasetoHeaven]

So I got an estimate from the builder who came by. $250,000!!!! for just the 10ft x 4ft tank! He said a 6 ft tall x 4 ft wide tank would be $55,000 just for the tank which seems also excessively more expensive than I anticipated. Is it just me, or are these quotes crazy?? I have one other builder who I am waiting on a quote on a 7 ft x 4 ft cylindrical tank. If it is similar to the initial ones I got, the StairwaytoHeaven will become the StairwaytoNowhere.

 

[Kevin@Nemos]

Well for reference, our 4 ft x 4ft was nearly 40k just for the tank and supper stand. 1 seam. It was a special build that got imported overseas. So sounds about right lol

Who did you get quoted by?

 

[danreef55]

Check this out $7739 https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...ed5910&afSmartRedirect=n&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

 

[StaircasetoHeaven]

Well for reference, our 4 ft x 4ft was nearly 40k just for the tank and supper stand. 1 seam. It was a special build that got imported overseas. So sounds about right lol

Who did you get quoted by?

Thanks for the info. Infinity Aquarium Design

 

[StaircasetoHeaven]

Check this out $7739 https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...ed5910&afSmartRedirect=n&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

I was looking at this listing. It is not clear to me the size of tank. I dont know if i would trust a tank built in China. If such large tsnks fail it would cause catastropic damage to a home.

 

[Gundy]

I have read through the entire thread and the majority of people are saying it’s a bad idea. Some of the comments recommending not to proceed are from very respected individuals here on R2R. Admittedly it’s a very difficult undertaking and expensive project - for a tank that is a maintenance nightmare and a difficult location as well.

It seems you are consistently ignoring most of the advice that has been given to you and you are wanting to proceed with this project regardless I mean no disrespect in any way. It’s your money and your project. With as many individuals advising you to not proceed, I would take their advice. Good luck.

 

[StaircasetoHeaven]

Actually I take all input with thanks and consideration. I think input that is based on experience is more useful than statements that something is a bad idea without detailing why. I did maintain a reef tank continuously for over 10 yrs so I certainly have made mistakes, and love to hear specifically WHY a concept is bad, not just a statements that it is bad. For instance for a fish only 7 to 10 ft depth tank, with a simulated coral insert WHY would maintenance be difficult using magnet algae cleaners, and a telescopic grabber to retrieve dead fish, or other debris, and a pressure wand to wash coral insert. Yes cleaning such a large tank may take longer, but it is unclear to me why this would be a insurmountable problem. So due to cost considerations, the only economically viable options are a 7 or 7 1/2 ft depth tanks.

 

[danreef55]

Thus far I have shared how things can be remediated or overcome but....
Personally, I would not consider undertaking this project even if I was willing to pay a company to maintain it. Bear in mind that folks that view the tank will be impressed. But someone with significant experience will likely be disappointed even with your best efforts. Daily tank maintenance will take far longer than you might anticipate. Weekly or monthly will be hard work. Here are a few things I suggest you take into consideration:

1. If I have this correctly... you will be working on a ladder so everything becomes more difficult! Think about just having to haul around a 12' ladder and bringing into your living room.
2. This will require some creative modifications to cleaning devices due to the height limitation of the room.
3. Yes, a pressure washer can indeed be used to clean the coral insert's structure. The false coral decorations snap into place. If you knock one out it is doubtful that you would be able to replace it. The decorations present another issue. You find it extremely difficult if not impossible to clean areas beneath the decorations due to the angle unless you change to a J shaped nozzle.
4. You are going to significantly stress your fish when pressure washing due to the wand's presence.
5. If you are not going bare bottom, you will be unable to evacuate detritus and will have to use a 10' vacuum.
6. If you have a single fish that is showing signs of some disease you will not be able to remove them thus forcing you to treat all of the fish.

I could keep going. Did I mention you are doing all of this off a ladder. Doing some of these tasks will require two hands and angling your body.

As a side issue do you spend most of your time in the living room. Most people are in the kitchen or the connecting family room. I wish you well if you decide to proceed but again I would recommend against this project.

 

[StaircasetoHeaven]

Thus far I have shared how things can be remediated or overcome but....
Personally, I would not consider undertaking this project even if I was willing to pay a company to maintain it. Bear in mind that folks that view the tank will be impressed. But someone with significant experience will likely be disappointed even with your best efforts. Daily tank maintenance will take far longer than you might anticipate. Weekly or monthly will be hard work. Here are a few things I suggest you take into consideration:

1. If I have this correctly... you will be working on a ladder so everything becomes more difficult! Think about just having to haul around a 12' ladder and bringing into your living room.
2. This will require some creative modifications to cleaning devices due to the height limitation of the room.
3. Yes, a pressure washer can indeed be used to clean the coral insert's structure. The false coral decorations snap into place. If you knock one out it is doubtful that you would be able to replace it. The decorations present another issue. You find it extremely difficult if not impossible to clean areas beneath the decorations due to the angle unless you change to a J shaped nozzle.
4. You are going to significantly stress your fish when pressure washing due to the wand's presence.
5. If you are not going bare bottom, you will be unable to evacuate detritus and will have to use a 10' vacuum.
6. If you have a single fish that is showing signs of some disease you will not be able to remove them thus forcing you to treat all of the fish.

I could keep going. Did I mention you are doing all of this off a ladder. Doing some of these tasks will require two hands and angling your body.

As a side issue do you spend most of your time in the living room. Most people are in the kitchen or the connecting family room. I wish you well if you decide to proceed but again I would recommend against this project.

Thus far I have shared how things can be remediated or overcome but....
Personally, I would not consider undertaking this project even if I was willing to pay a company to maintain it. Bear in mind that folks that view the tank will be impressed. But someone with significant experience will likely be disappointed even with your best efforts. Daily tank maintenance will take far longer than you might anticipate. Weekly or monthly will be hard work. Here are a few things I suggest you take into consideration:

1. If I have this correctly... you will be working on a ladder so everything becomes more difficult! Think about just having to haul around a 12' ladder and bringing into your living room.
2. This will require some creative modifications to cleaning devices due to the height limitation of the room.
3. Yes, a pressure washer can indeed be used to clean the coral insert's structure. The false coral decorations snap into place. If you knock one out it is doubtful that you would be able to replace it. The decorations present another issue. You find it extremely difficult if not impossible to clean areas beneath the decorations due to the angle unless you change to a J shaped nozzle.
4. You are going to significantly stress your fish when pressure washing due to the wand's presence.
5. If you are not going bare bottom, you will be unable to evacuate detritus and will have to use a 10' vacuum.
6. If you have a single fish that is showing signs of some disease you will not be able to remove them thus forcing you to treat all of the fish.

I could keep going. Did I mention you are doing all of this off a ladder. Doing some of these tasks will require two hands and angling your body.

As a side issue do you spend most of your time in the living room. Most people are in the kitchen or the connecting family room. I wish you well if you decide to proceed but again I would recommend against this project.

All your points are good. I would say i have indeed considered each of them. Even though I have what i believe to be solutions, I also know that there may be problems that cannot be anticipated and the planned solutions may not function or may not function as well as planned.

 

[jabraha1]

All your points are good. I would say i have indeed considered each of them. Even though I have what i believe to be solutions, I also know that there may be problems that cannot be anticipated and the planned solutions may not function or may not function as well as planned.

Part time tank service guy here (it's my summer job when I'm not teaching) and anything taller then 5 feet is an absolute nightmare for us to clean. I've serviced tanks that are deeper than 5 feet and getting to anything that deep requires a whole arm and a grabber. The longer the tool you're using to grab or scrape the less control you have of the tool at the end of the arm/stick, so your leverage and angles become more complicated as you go deeper.
One way to make this tank less problematic might be to avoid sand (not sure if you had planned to have some on the bottom) but that eliminates you from having any livestock that need sand. Either way you're going to likely need some inverts for clean up crew and shells will eventually build up and need removing.
Cleaning a curved edge is also always harder. If you instrument isn't flush you risk scratches. If anything gets stuck between the magnet and the acrylic, at the power of magnet you're going to need, you risk scratches. There's no way to buff those out without someone getting into the tank. More scratches, more algae, more need to maintenance, it'll become exponentially worse.
The ambition is admirable, and I haven't really said anything new, but given that I've seen and serviced a lot of tanks, and also admire anyone who want to build something big and grand and am totally jealousy that you have the fund to get cool and creative the maintenance on anything deeper than 5 ft is going to be a serious job on a regular basis and something people pay $1000/week for someone else to do for them.
I don't think anyone in the thread has brought up issues about flow? How are you going to create a healthy mix of water flow throughout the column? You need to avoid any stagnant pockets of water.
Don't just bring in builders for this project, bring in guys from LFS and/or service companies who are taking care of tanks all day every day.
Wider and shorter is always easier to maintain, landscapes can be just as cool as towers. Rather than just throwing wrenches, I'd ask if there's any way you might be able to turn this project on it's side?