Bolus dosing

[Mo.]

@Mo. maybe take a step back from the thread for a bit. I think you are taking this too personal.

As a fellow hobbyist I understand some of your frustration. I do. However I'm not sure it is your place to defend the method or the product. I would wager Fauna Marin is aware of the thread and or chatter this thread has generated. No one here prevents them from clearing up any misconceptions.

Share your experience and be done.

It’s not personal to me- I have repeatedly said this.

I have been lurking to see if I can learn something. I’d like to know the flaws as well as all of you. I also wanted to see if there were some logical explanations for the pH observations and maybe the Alk stability- unfortunately, I don’t take hourly measurements, but I think that was discussed in one of the videos? Hence my postings….

Is it actually a small portion of carbonate in the mix. Is it all bicarb related? I’ve always wondered this and so clearly have others on this thread, who would clearly rather make a copy and use that instead- that part is apparent. Nothing wrong with it, but if the thread is not based on what was actually said, somebody will wipe their tank out….

I don’t expect a reputable company to be giving their proprietary mix details, but we can all speculate.

This thread needs to be constructive. Sorry if I have ruffled feathers. Sometimes that’s for the good.

I hope you can see it that way….

 

[SDchris]

This thread needs to be constructive. Sorry if I have ruffled feathers. Sometimes that’s for the good.

I don't think you ruffled any feathers.
You spend a whole lot of time making accusations, and when asked to help direct to specific points in videos you seemed very familiar with, you refused and spent a whole lot of time writing long convoluted replies that added nothing to the discussion.

 

[Mo.]

Hmm

Being directed to specific points is being lazy. I don’t have a record of it. I would have to watch it again also.

Watch the videos and then criticise. I just gave a counter argument based on reading ALL of this thread and watching ALL of the videos.

Something that very few of you have done.

I’m sorry you don’t like being called out for it, but it’s been more than 2
Months of this circular arguments based on hearsay.

Let’s Move on and learn something….or teach me something…. I’m sure there’s a lot to learn from this as well….

 

[carbl]

Hi mo,

I don't quite understand your criticism. A company launches a product or, in this case, a method on the market and publishes instructions for it. That's what Randy was referring to in his criticism. Why should he watch any videos?
Claude says this, Claude says that. In my perception, he likes to play with words. And whenever it gets awkward, he gets evasive.

And the elephant in the room is still how faunamarin arrive at the KH information in their KH mix.
It is quite strange. When something is suggested or claimed that could potentially harm a company, companies usually react very quickly. For example, this bolus guide has led to some competing manufacturers very quickly commenting publicly or distancing themselves from Claude's statements.
Faunamarin does not comment on the accusations at all. If someone falsely claims that there is only 750 ml in your 1 liter bottle, it usually goes to a lawyer very quickly.

All in all, I find it all rather sad. Bolus as a method can be introduced and discussed, but these unspeakable claims by Claude and also the question marks regarding his KH MIx overshadow the discussion.
But this is self-made and does not come, as he so often claims, from people who want to harm him.
Faunamarin is a well-known and respected company. Together with a few others, Calude founded the modern reef hobby, at least here in Germany.
Our hobby is complicated enough as it is and I think it's a real shame that a company like this helps to mystify things.
And the crazy thing is, there's no need for it at all. Bolus dosing is certainly an interesting concept that users of Balling light can try. But what's all this other crap?

 

[Mo.]

Hey Carbl,

My point is this.

Criticise as much as you like, but base the criticism on your own observations, not based on the assumptions made by others.

some dispelled theories were based on the videos and dispelled without having seen the video.

That doesn’t make sense to me and it’s been done multiple times in this thread, which is clouding the science.

I just want to make my new reef tank look the best it can. Whilst I am on kalk, at the moment, I am likely to switch back to bolus because what I did see with bolus in my tank was all positive.

I don’t know why and I want to know why.

I was hoping this thread would help me understand why, but it hasn’t moved from first base and I’m guessing it’s because most have refused to watch the videos and streams which aim to give some background around its development.

I’d love to hear a debate on pro’s but also the cons of the system. Nothing is perfect,

The sudden pH spike from bolus dosing the alk- I called BS when I first heard it, but when I ran balling light and then converted to Bolus, it did exactly what was said and I still can’t explain it.

This thread has only called BS on it, yet I have posted a photo of my own pH spike, so it does happen. When others get over this first hurdle and try it, we might have a seasoned debate about it.

My 2 cents.

 

[Mo.]

As for other companies distancing themselves- that’s probably competing interests no?!

Or have they shown that the pH spike doesn’t occur, or the stable alk doesn’t happen?

Or which bit do they not like?
I would be interested to hear?!

Cheers
Mo

 

[Mo.]

Talking about mystifying things.

Remember Thomas Pohl? His blue bottles were a complete mystery and some of them still are. But they definitely did work.

Commercial companies will try and keep things a mystery and reefers will always try and unravel those mysteries.

Part of the fun, I guess?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No- only the ones you debunk or discredit. There is no point being partially informed.

I read their document, and discredited it. THAT is what I discredited. You are the one telling me that one of their many videos had additional information of some sort that I need to see. If you cannot tell me which video and which info, then I’m not going to chase your assertion all around.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

As for other companies distancing themselves- that’s probably competing interests no?!

Or have they shown that the pH spike doesn’t occur, or the stable alk doesn’t happen?

Or which bit do they not like?
I would be interested to hear?!

Cheers
Mo

the pH effect is easily understood and has nothing to do with bolus dosing vs just having higher alk however you get there.

The stable alk has not been reproduced by a single person I have seen posted. I’m still waiting after having asked many times.

 

[Mo.]

I read their document, and discredited it. THAT is what I discredited. You are the one telling me that one of their many videos had additional information of some sort that I need to see. If you cannot tell me which video and which info, then I’m not going to chase your assertion all around.

Ok- I thought so. Lol

Which part of their document were you referring to here?

“
Randy’s response
“I dont know exactly what is meant by some of those, but for #3 I don’t see what bolus dosing has to do with any type of halogen chemistry. There are no halogens in sodium bicarbonate, nor am I aware of any relationship between alk or bicarbonate and any means of protecting corals with any halogen chemistry.””

Cheers
Mo

 

[Pod_01]

Do your own research, like I did. It’s out there.

Then either decide if it’s important or not. You don’t have to use or measure it.

Many choose to though. There is a reason.

Just to reiterate for the 3rd time. I do keep Iodine at the sea levels because my Mk1 eyeball feels there is improvement / benefit.

That doesn’t mean I am going propose a theory that Iodine is acting like a sunscreen in a coral, that would be silly.
Neither am I going to create a video and claim I developed new science, again that would be silly.

As I mentioned we are in circular argument getting nowhere, or please point me to an scientific article that states Iodine provides light protection to corals.

The sudden pH spike from bolus dosing the alk- I called BS when I first heard it, but when I ran balling light and then converted to Bolus, it did exactly what was said and I still can’t explain it.

This thread has only called BS on it, yet I have posted a photo of my own pH spike, so it does happen. When others get over this first hurdle and try it, we might have a seasoned debate about it.

Here is my pH graph from this morning:

I dose BOLUS at 6:45am there is bit of a rise and after mixing it is at the same level as before.
My pH probe is in the same chamber where I dose so the spike may be exaggerated.

My overall pH behaviour didn’t change. If I have fresh air in the room the pH rises quickly. If there is no fresh air it is lot slower.

Here is profile with open windows and BOLUS:

Here with closed windows and BOLUS:

So from where I stand, no new science has been developed or discovered and pH is behaving as it should or as it did prior to BOLUS.

BOLUS didn’t fix my broken buffer system…
But opening windows helped… big surprise there.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hmm

Being directed to specific points is being lazy. I don’t have a record of it. I would have to watch it again also.

Watch the videos and then criticise. I just gave a counter argument based on reading ALL of this thread and watching ALL of the videos.

Something that very few of you have done.

I’m sorry you don’t like being called out for it, but it’s been more than 2
Months of this circular arguments based on hearsay.

Let’s Move on and learn something….or teach me something…. I’m sure there’s a lot to learn from this as well….

Ridiculous. Reading and debunking the false claims in the FM written document using established science is not heresay. Just because I did not watch a video does not degrade the arguments.

 

[Garf]

Clearly. Not watched the video then?

I've watched all the ones I could find, none made sense.

 

[Mo.]

the pH effect is easily understood and has nothing to do with bolus dosing vs just having higher alk however you get there.

The stable alk has not been reproduced by a single person I have seen posted. I’m still waiting after having asked many times.

Don't follow- you need to bolus dose something to get a spike. If you don’t bolus dose, you get a gradual increase?
If you have a higher Alk, it still won’t spike suddenly. Unless you bolus dose something. If you bolus dose a hydroxide, you get a much larger spike, but also large amounts of precipitation?


It depends on your definition of stable alk, but who is going to measure alk 24 times in the day? That might be the reason you haven’t seen it posted rather than it doesn’t happen?!

My alk fluctuation when measured twice a day was less than 0.5dkh. I used to have a 1dkh swing on my last tank when doing balling light and also when using the dastaco. But I also get a fairly stable Alk reading when dosing saturated Kalkwasser. Chris Meckley speaks about stable Alk with kalk dosing all the time,

 

[Mo.]

Ridiculous. Reading and debunking the false claims in the FM written document using established science is not heresay. Just because I did not watch a video does not degrade the arguments.

Nah!

You debunked things that weren’t in the document- that’s the point
That you keep missing!

 

[Mo.]

I've watched all the ones I could find, none made sense.

Lol

 

[Garf]

Lol

Are you saying that the videos make sense?

 

[Mo.]

I understand some bits being debunked, but I could certainly follow the videos and I did have some of the same results when I tried bolus.

What happened when you tried bolus?

It’s not really new is it- it’s just the observations haven’t been made before.

Cheers
Mo

 

[Garf]

I understand some bits being debunked, but I could certainly follow the videos and I did have some of the same results when I tried bolus.

What happened when you tried bolus?

It’s not really new is it- it’s just the observations haven’t been made before.

Cheers
Mo

I can't do the whole hog with the bolus dosing malarky as my lights are already maxed out, which appears to be key to any perceived benefit.

 

[SDchris]

Being directed to specific points is being lazy.

Let’s Move on and learn something….or teach me something

Yeah Nah.
I think thats called being a hypocrite.