How much would it cost to fully automate a reef tank?

[leo12345]

Im Just curious what’s the cheapest it would cost to fully automate your system? Im talking like automated dosing, water changes, water testing, feeding and things like that.

 

[dmsc2fs]

Hydros has it's own alkalinity testing using dosing pumps and a pH probe. They have an iV and you can get the X10 with 4 dosing pump. Three are needed for alkalinity testing. The iV requires a drive port for the stirrer and the X10 has 2 of those. You can use the results and dynamic dosing to dose a KH buffer also. Also you can add a salinity probe in the iV which the X10 has a salinity port and the pH port. It will also test both of those at the beginning of the alkalinity test. You can use the KH Carer if you want.I have used both and like the iV and X10 combination better than the KH Carer. Below is my testing page. Some of the test are manual test. The iVpH and iV salinity on the second row are realtime readings from the probes in the iV but are not correct except just before the start of the alkalinity test since after completion of the test there is still reagent in the test beaker with the test sample. The ones labeled iV if the first row are the sampled test and have the sample date and time. I also have a pH and salinity probe in the sump and those are on the first row also.

Interesting. I did not know you could go down this route. Why do you prefer your setup over the KH Carer. You have to dedicate 4 pumps to testing. If you have the KH Carer you free up all those pumps since it can test and dose for you? I could see your setup if you didn't already have the KH Carer, but you mentioned you do have it.

 

[n2585722]

Interesting. I did not know you could go down this route. Why do you prefer your setup over the KH Carer. You have to dedicate 4 pumps to testing. If you have the KH Carer you free up all those pumps since it can test and dose for you? I could see your setup if you didn't already have the KH Carer, but you mentioned you do have it.

Only 2 pumps need to be precision dosing pumps. You can use a Hydros simple doser on the second drive port as the drain pump. The 2 of the 4 dosing pumps for the iV. Then use the 2 dosing pumps left for dosing. I used them for All For Reef and dosing a KH buffer when I had the X10 and iV setup stand alone. Now it is part of my collective.

 

[Dom]

Im Just curious what’s the cheapest it would cost to fully automate your system? Im talking like automated dosing, water changes, water testing, feeding and things like that.

This question concerns me.

While automation has its uses in the hobby, I've never been a big fan of, as I feel it creates a disconnect between the reefer and their tank. This can be a recipe for disaster.

If you want to enjoy a tank in your home, but don't want to put in the work, I feel the most cost-effective way is to hire a service that comes in to do the things you would like to do with automation.

 

[Dom]

In fact, almost every "DIY" project I have ever done ends up costing more than the retail when all things are considered and everything involved is added up

But isn't it more gratifying to build it yourself?

 

[BZOFIQ]

I love my plank but it’s 200 bucks

Currently on sale at not one of my favorite suppliers @ $168

 

[BZOFIQ]

You can use off the shelf float switches on sense ports. All you need is some 4 pin GX12 connectors to connect them to. I have 10 of them in my system that were there when I got my first Hydros right after they first came out with it. They are all connected to sense ports. A lot of the controllers have sense ports several have 4. I have 30 sense ports in my collective but only 22 in use. For button switches I have 5 of those connected to one 0-10v analog input. The other three inputs are connected to pressure sensors used to determine the water level in my three reservoirs at my mixing station. I have 4 more 0-10v inputs that are not in use at this time.

Nothing new, but you didnt respond to my concern - cost of adding analog inputs in Apex vs. Hydros.

 

[ca1ore]

Assuming the OP meant 'fully' literally, then the answer is that it is not possible. For example, you can easily configure Apex + DoS to do automatic water changes, but you have to manually mix up the NSW periodically. Probably you can get most of the way there with the Apex system for $2,500-3K. Presumably GHL and Hydros can as well, but I have no experience with either of them.

For me, and I suspect for most, a DiY approach is not feasible. Even if I could do it, the time involved makes it a non starter.

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

Assuming the OP meant 'fully' literally, then the answer is that it is not possible. For example, you can easily configure Apex + DoS to do automatic water changes, but you have to manually mix up the NSW periodically. Probably you can get most of the way there with the Apex system for $2,500-3K. Presumably GHL and Hydros can as well, but I have no experience with either of them.

For me, and I suspect for most, a DiY approach is not feasible. Even if I could do it, the time involved makes it a non starter.

there's also the "cleaning" of all the pumps and equipment to keep them running.

 

[BeanAnimal]

But isn't it more gratifying to build it yourself?

That is a complex question but I will try to give an honest answer.

I enjoy problem solving and I enjoy learning and I enjoy creating. I am often a perfectionist. I find that many (most?) contractors don't do quality work. I find that many (most?) products don't fit the criteria that I am looking for (be it features or quality or form factor, etc.).

There was a day that DIYing (be it a dosing solution or pouring a concrete slab or replacing a head gasket) was born of the things I mentioned above, and often also revolved around COST. I strived to do a better job myself, save money and learn. I found that the perfectionist in me usually forces a better solution than I could buy, but often at a tremendous cost in time, money and frustration.

I still enjoy DIYing to an extent but usually would rather spend my time doing something else other than going down a never ending rabbit hole redesigning a wheel that may not have been perfect, but was good enough if I just lowered my expectations a bit.

It boils down to the the fact that I have no desire to spend time tinkering with things, especially things that will always need to be a problem (keeping a reefpi or diy controller up to date and working or adding features).

So, no the gratification for me these days is NOT going down a rabbit hole and spending my time and money doing things that are already enjoyable out of the box... I want to spend the money fishing Kodiak Island, not building a boat to get there. I want to spend time watching the tank, not building stuff for it, etc.

There are exceptions, but they are rare these days.

 

[Troylee]

I think the best answer to this question is contact your lfs and set up a Maintence contract. Then it’s a monthly fee and totally automated for you lol… no other way to be fully automated.. hobby would be boring if it was! Haha

 

[ca1ore]

there's also the "cleaning" of all the pumps and equipment to keep them running.

Yes, there are countless examples. Calibrating probes/testing devices, cleaning glass/acrylic, all kinds of periodic maintenance. There was a different thread asking how long have you gone without any intervention? My answer was 2 weeks, because that is the length of time my NSW reservoir lasts. BUT the reality is that other tasks will be required in between. I have more automation on my tank than most, but less than some. It does not necessarily reduce manual 'touches', but it does reduce the duration of those touches.

 

[MnFish1]

Yes, there are countless examples. Calibrating probes/testing devices, cleaning glass/acrylic, all kinds of periodic maintenance. There was a different thread asking how long have you gone without any intervention? My answer was 2 weeks, because that is the length of time my NSW reservoir lasts. BUT the reality is that other tasks will be required in between. I have more automation on my tank than most, but less than some. It does not necessarily reduce manual 'touches', but it does reduce the duration of those touches.

Agree. In reality, instead of 'tank maintenance' there is now a need for maintaining the equipment - making sure that nothing is failing and the more you rely on the equipment, the more attention one has to pay to making sure no link in the 'chain' is broken (or breaking). That said - I admire people who have sumps and electrical cabinets and water stations that look like the cockpit of a large jet - every time I tried to add 'too much' - I ended up with a problem

 

[BeanAnimal]

Agree. In reality, instead of 'tank maintenance' there is now a need for maintaining the equipment - making sure that nothing is failing and the more you rely on the equipment, the more attention one has to pay to making sure no link in the 'chain' is broken (or breaking). That said - I admire people who have sumps and electrical cabinets and water stations that look like the cockpit of a large jet - every time I tried to add 'too much' - I ended up with a problem

Sometimes keeping it simple --- keeps it simple. My "unattended tank" for ~5 years had nothing but electricity and ATO driven by a float valve, reservoir and latching relay to fill the reservoir.

No skimmer, filters, dosing... nothing. No maintenance per say other than the rare removal of GHA from the overflow and hacking blue ridge coral a few times from the water surface to allow for better flow. (It grew out of the water and into a solid mesa type structure). Reeflow dart pump (knock on wood) is well over a decade old and never been touched.

Obv - the system has changed a lot over the last 1.5 -2 years with all of the GHL equipment, skimmer additions, etc. But I still as ironic as it sounds, keep the system very simple even though it has a sophisticated controller attached.

 

[n2585722]

Nothing new, but you didnt respond to my concern - cost of adding analog inputs in Apex vs. Hydros.

The sense port has a analog and digital input on it. It depends on the sensor you use as to which one is used. The XS controller which is 159.99 and has 4 of the sense ports. It can be added to you collective of controllers to add 4 more sense ports to the collective. I have 2 of these currently but I could remove both now that I have other controllers in the locations with extra sense ports. I don't want to though.

 

[BZOFIQ]

The sense port has a analog and digital input on it. It depends on the sensor you use as to which one is used. The XS controller which is 159.99 and has 4 of the sense ports. It can be added to you collective of controllers to add 4 more sense ports to the collective. I have 2 of these currently but I could remove both now that I have other controllers in the locations with extra sense ports. I don't want to though.

This was my point!

The XS controller (Hydros) which is 159.99 adds 4 analog ports ports, The PMx adds 6 analog ports for $94.99.

 

[n2585722]

This was my point!

The XS controller (Hydros) which is 159.99 adds 4 analog ports ports, The PMx adds 6 analog ports for $94.99.

There are other means of getting those ports now. The XS, X4, X10, Minnow and Launch all have 4 of these ports so if you are adding any of those you will get more sense ports. The X2, X3 and Maven have 2 of the sense ports each and other ports. So you will have to figure out which other ports you need and choose the controllers go get those and then determine how many sense ports you have and how many more you need if you need more. As far as 0-10v inputs those come if 4 per ports. The X4, Launch and Wave Engines have those. I used the ones on my X4 but have not used any of the ones on my Wave Engine. So if I decide I need one at the tank I have 4 on my Wave engine there. I also have 4 spare sense ports at my tank on one of my X10's. I also have a XS there that I could remove and move the devices hooked to it to the X10. I also have a Minnow in the garage and an XS out there as well and I have 4 spare sense ports on the minnow I can use instead of the XS. At the time I got the 2 XS units it was the least expensive way to get them. I needed the Minnow and X10 for the dosing pumps and the sense ports come with them.

 

[BZOFIQ]

There are other means of getting those ports now. The XS, X4, X10, Minnow and Launch all have 4 of these ports so if you are adding any of those you will get more sense ports. The X2, X3 and Maven have 2 of the sense ports each and other ports. So you will have to figure out which other ports you need and choose the controllers go get those and then determine how many sense ports you have and how many more you need if you need more. As far as 0-10v inputs those come if 4 per ports. The X4, Launch and Wave Engines have those. I used the ones on my X4 but have not used any of the ones on my Wave Engine. So if I decide I need one at the tank I have 4 on my Wave engine there. I also have 4 spare sense ports at my tank on one of my X10's. I also have a XS there that I could remove and move the devices hooked to it to the X10. I also have a Minnow in the garage and an XS out there as well and I have 4 spare sense ports on the minnow I can use instead of the XS. At the time I got the 2 XS units it was the least expensive way to get them. I needed the Minnow and X10 for the dosing pumps and the sense ports come with them.

I know, The PM1, PM2, PM3, FMM..... add analog ports in the same fashion...for less money.

 

[BeanAnimal]

There are other means of getting those ports now. The XS, X4, X10, Minnow and Launch all have 4 of these ports

The fact that none of this is easy to find, obvious or well laid out is my issue with their product line. Silly naming conventions and product designations coupled with a poorly conveyed feature set and/or matrix, etc.

 

[n2585722]

The fact that none of this is easy to find, obvious or well laid out is my issue with their product line. Silly naming conventions and product designations coupled with a poorly conveyed feature set and/or matrix, etc.

The names make sense to me but I have only used Digital Aquatics and Hydros controllers. It was not that hard to convert from the Digital Aquatics controller to the Hydros. With Hydros the modules are stand alone controllers or can be combined in a collective to form a larger controller. Which ones you use in the collective is up to you and your needs. The sense port is the normal input port for all sensors other than pH, ORP and salinity. So the are a general input port. They have a digital input and analog input. It also has a 5v out so sensors with login can be powered from the port. Temp sensors, triple level water level sensors, TDS sensors are some that use the digital input rather than the analog. A float switch would use the analog input along with most leak detectors and the single level water level sensor. If you know the pins you can connect your own float switches to the sense ports which I have done. The info on the ports and their pinouts is on their forum i the DIY section so they do not hide the info.

 

[BeanAnimal]

It would appear that you have wholly missed my point.

None of what you just posted is abundantly clear or laid out in any if their marketing or communications and their naming conventions are random and not overly descriptive or intuitive.

It is not that they are "hiding it" or that it is "hard to use" - I never got that far! it is that their marketing, website and every other aspect of this products presentation are a disaster. When I went to look at the product to compare it with competitors, I was left more confused than when i started. Overlapping functions, no succinct differentiation between "controllers" and "functions" and "ports" etc.

So for me, I walked away because the marketing is (was) so utterly bad. It may be the best controller and ecosystem ever developed. If I can't make heads or tails of it in 5 minutes (let alone 30 seconds) from their marketing and further can't figure out what the different names for things mean....

Force, Drive, Minnow, Maven, Kraken, Control, XP, XD, X4, LE, Wave Engine... etc, Worse then being ambiguous there isn't even a theme. It is just random nonsense or obscurata to sound cool for marketing.

Anyway, to each their own. We all have different reasons for buying things and different ways of evaluating things, petty or not.