I know this going to be controversial but.

[Dan_P]

if you look at the old reef tanks, they often tend to not give a crap about trace elements and they stick to the major five moments so I ask you which is more important trace or the major five elements by major. I’m referring to calcium carbonate aka kh, magnesium and also nitrogen and phosphorus levels. i’m not making fun of anybody.

If you own a multi-year aquarium, I think that means you learned how to manage such a system. Said another way, you learned how not to screw up.

One important way to screw up is thinking that there is an easy way to manage a complicated system like a saltwater aquarium or there is one important factor that controls the fate of the system. The thinking parallels believing in the fountain of youth and human diet supplements. The current trace element fad is yet another way to focus on the wrong thing. It is an important consideration, but one of many.

So older aquaria not giving a hoot about trace elements is an illusion. Trace elements are one of many important things to manage and maybe not so important. Keep in mind it is ICP and trace element vendors that are fanning the flames of desire for trace elements.

 

[MnFish1]

It’s OK I prefer when people say truth to me. Also, I am autistic and I have ADHD and “giftedness”. Fact of my mind works differently then the average person can be both a good and bad also, I sometimes misunderstand things that people say on this forum. It’s perfectly fine what you said.
I have a preference for the truth, facts and logic over emotions.

OK I'm going to give you my truth to you. You came here for advice. Following that you seemed to critique/question every piece of advice you received. And - it's also possible that you misunderstood. I was disappointed when you said you were going to just quit. I think - pick one choice or another - either accept other's answers or don't ask the question. IMHO - the answers here have not been attacking or negative to you as a person. I also do not think your illness is any issue here with regards to the advice given.

 

[mattdg]

I ASKED YOU, WHICH IS MORE IMPORTANT, THE MAJOR FIVE OR TRACE​

Major 5. Coral will simply die without keeping track of the first 3. Often evaluating the last two, will assist in maintaining some trace in the system.

That said, I have a 6 year mixed reef and regular evaluation and addition of appropriate trace, keeps all the coral MUCH healthier and thriving.

 

[BeanAnimal]

In this case I gave a wild guess opinion and I doubt anyone else can do otherwise.

Bah… unquestionably it was bolus dosing. All of our trace elements didn’t get wasted due to our broken buffer systems but we just didn’t know given the limited science of the day.

 

[areefer01]

If you own a multi-year aquarium, I think that means you learned how to manage such a system. Said another way, you learned how not to screw up.

Very true.

 

[Hans-Werner]

if you look at the old reef tanks, they often tend to not give a crap about trace elements and they stick to the major five moments so I ask you which is more important trace or the major five elements by major.

Like Randy already said, everything that is essential is basically of equal importance.

Yes, corals will tolerate a wider range of concentrations of most trace elements, likely because there is some variation in the natural concentrations, especially of trace metals, in the oceans, typically by around tenfold, but much more in some. So, organisms that depend on uptake of trace metals from the water should be able to adapt to some variations in concentrations.

But mainly there was another point I wanted to make: To judge the mentioned "old tanks" we would have to know what is different between the "good old tanks" and the "bad old tanks" and the many tanks that have been given up before they really got old tanks. And, well, there is, or at least was, the "old tank syndrome". Are, or were, it really toxic concentrations of certain trace metals like copper as Ron Shimek thought? Or were it rather deficits or imbalances in trace metals?

Today with the widespread use of ICP analysis we hardly have any evidence that trace metal toxicity is a widespread problem. Instead we have widespread use of trace elements additives under control of ICP analysis.

 

[Reefering1]

Like Randy already said, everything that is essential is basically of equal importance.

Yes, corals will tolerate a wider range of concentrations of most trace elements, likely because there is some variation in the natural concentrations, especially of trace metals, in the oceans, typically by around tenfold, but much more in some. So, organisms that depend on uptake of trace metals from the water should be able to adapt to some variations in concentrations.

But mainly there was another point I wanted to make: To judge the mentioned "old tanks" we would have to know what is different between the "good old tanks" and the "bad old tanks" and the many tanks that have been given up before they really got old tanks. And, well, there is, or at least was, the "old tank syndrome". Are, or were, it really toxic concentrations of certain trace metals like copper as Ron Shimek thought? Or were it rather deficits or imbalances in trace metals?

Today with the widespread use of ICP analysis we hardly have any evidence that trace metal toxicity is a widespread problem. Instead we have widespread use of trace elements additives under control of ICP analysis.

Explain your bolus method, please..

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Explain your bolus method, please..

Bonus of what? I do not see Hans-Werner mention dosing methods or bolus dosing in this thread.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Explain your bolus method, please..

The discussed "bolus method" is not my method. It is Claude Schuhmacher's from Fauna Marin, not to be confused with Tropic Marin.

However, I can imagine that with trace metals there could be something like a "bolus method". In medicine "bolus" means, administering a medication in a short time to reach an effective level https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolus_(medicine). This indeed could make sense with some trace metals (i. e. iron, manganese). But I do not see how the same effect applies to bicarbonate.

 

[Reefering1]

Bonus of what? I do not see Hans-Werner mention dosing methods or bolus dosing in this thread.

Sorry, I mixed up the 2

 

[rtparty]

The discussed "bolus method" is not my method. It is Claude Schuhmacher's from Fauna Marin, not to be confused with Tropic Marin.

However, I can imagine that with trace metals there could be something like a "bolus method". In medicine "bolus" means, administering a medication in a short time to reach an effective level https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolus_(medicine). This indeed could make sense with some trace metals (i. e. iron, manganese). But I do not see how the same effect applies to bicarbonate.

But what if it was a bicarbonate/carbonate/peptide/special ingredient concoction marketed as ONLY a bicarbonate? If one uses tricky marketing, can one use tricky chemistry too?

 

[GARRIGA]

Bah… unquestionably it was bolus dosing. All of our trace elements didn’t get wasted due to our broken buffer systems but we just didn’t know given the limited science of the day.

Found out about Bolus over the weekend. Interesting and very much like how early day dosing was performed. One shot remedy. Might be my approach. Keep it simple

 

[GARRIGA]

I believe the answer to the poll above will depend on what kind of system someone is using - since a big part of trace elements is avoiding 'overdose' as well as 'underdose'. For those using a no water change method - they need to be more concerned about trace element levels - since they could be overdosing (thus - they do ICP and other trace element testing). In my tanks - I have dosed them (long before the ability to measure them) - and not dosed them - and have never noticed any difference. It seems likely (to me) that feeding a varied diet will supply any trace elements needed (especially if those products are made from items from ocean dwelling animals.

Are there actual studies that the ICP reported upper limit levels of trace are of concern or just guidelines based on NSW? I’m planning on being more concerned about lower limits vs squirting drops from 20 independent bottles and Tropic Marin has a new line based on major trace element families where only certain elements are tested and test dosed based on that. Less bottles yet I’m thinking A&K might solves most of it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Found out about Bolus over the weekend. Interesting and very much like how early day dosing was performed. One shot remedy. Might be my approach. Keep it simple

If you have not read the long thread here, don’t believe any of the babbling about mechanism that comes along with it.

 

[GARRIGA]

If you have not read the long thread here, don’t believe any of the babbling about mechanism that comes along with it.

Have read everything and are you specifically referring to Bolus or just in general what the OP posted? To be honest. Like with everything else, reefing has many opinions that may or not be supported by facts and often commingled with own experience as a form of confirmation and why I take it all in then test it. Something unable to perform at the moment as I'm struggling to find a suitable stand and yesterday was my second failure. Only one way to find out. Do it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Have read everything and are you specifically referring to Bolus or just in general what the OP posted? To be honest. Like with everything else, reefing has many opinions that may or not be supported by facts and often commingled with own experience as a form of confirmation and why I take it all in then test it. Something unable to perform at the moment as I'm struggling to find a suitable stand and yesterday was my second failure. Only one way to find out. Do it.

I mean this thread where the disinformation Fauna Marin proposes for chemistry mechanisms is discussed. Their false ideas masquerade as facts. It is not a matter of opinion.

Bolus dosing

Dear all, I saw a video about bolus dosing by Fauna Marin (in german). The idea there is to dose the whole dose of KH in the morning 30mins before lights on and then start the light directly at 120% to then decrease throughout the day. The idea is to get a pH boost right at the beginning of the...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[GARRIGA]

I mean this thread where the disinformation Fauna Marin proposes for chemistry mechanisms is discussed. Their false ideas masquerade as facts. It is not a matter of opinion.

Bolus dosing

Dear all, I saw a video about bolus dosing by Fauna Marin (in german). The idea there is to dose the whole dose of KH in the morning 30mins before lights on and then start the light directly at 120% to then decrease throughout the day. The idea is to get a pH boost right at the beginning of the...

www.reef2reef.com

That's probably the same video I saw but couldn't complete because it was longer than my attention span. Not arguing it's being valid or not other than reminds me of how others dosed Kalk once that became known. Not specific to carbonate before lights on to raise the pH and get the process started but just in general where the old days assumed requirements were dosed once. At least by those I spoke with and what I attempted early on before dismantling my tank.

You know way better than me to the efficacy of that they speak but if they are having success then couldn't it be plausible? Regardless, I'm dosing AFR which means no early alkalinity boost but perhaps I can just dose that day's contents at first light. Don't know and why I say I'll test it. Having a dosing pump restricted to one event per day likely less fallible then turning something on for continuous increments my thinking. Less wear and tear might result in longer life to the extent failure can be avoided. No experience with dosing pumps so just me being overly cautious as I'm one for a pound of prevention.

 

[GARRIGA]

I mean this thread where the disinformation Fauna Marin proposes for chemistry mechanisms is discussed. Their false ideas masquerade as facts. It is not a matter of opinion.

Bolus dosing

Dear all, I saw a video about bolus dosing by Fauna Marin (in german). The idea there is to dose the whole dose of KH in the morning 30mins before lights on and then start the light directly at 120% to then decrease throughout the day. The idea is to get a pH boost right at the beginning of the...

www.reef2reef.com

Checked the thread and that's not the video I saw. This was it.

 

[Reef keeper 103]

….

 

[GARRIGA]

I'm reading that thread now. If Randy says it's wrong then I'm going with that because the chemistry has always been that I wasn't fond of going back to high school and he can write books.

All I want to know. Can I dose AFR just once per day. Trying to keep it simple and avoid disasters due to getting overly complicated.