Vendor Misnaming

[Lbrdsoxfan]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck - it’s a duck.

That said, paying stupid amounts of money for a “named” coral would go away if people would stop buying them. If you had two cheeseburgers sitting side by side that for all intents and purposes were identical, would you pay double for the one with a fancy name?

This. Don't buy the overpriced junk, then the vendors won't sell em as that.

I'm out.

 

[GARRIGA]

Buyer beware is a thing, sadly. When I was young there was a coat factory or suit factory (recall Burlington) that marketed about an educated consumer and can't see that being more pertinent then when buying corals. Seen it in the morph business with reptiles where sellers often describe something with no proof of lineage or they themselves likely not grasping the genetics involved. Best learn before getting burned.

 

[mfinn]

Im not trying to suggest R2R be the name police. That ultimately falls upon the vendors. Which is why having trustworthy sponsors is important.

Names are here to stay, thats just a fact. There are strains that are not being imported, is it rarity in the wild, i dont know. However, Its also an easy way to know what someone is talking about. Without the lineage debate, If i say i have og wolverines, you know what zoa im talking about. Which is a lot easier than saying i have a blue zoa and then playing the 20 question game.

What my whole point was with the post, was say joe bob corals was selling scrambled eggs as great owls. Similar colors, but very different strains. One is imported a lot with a low price tag, one was thought to be gone from the hobby that has made a resurgence with a high price tag. Sorry if theres an joe bob corals on here.

Its more with sponsor vetting snd accountability. Theres like an un written list of un trustworthy vendors for a lack of better words. I have no idea what the process is to become a sponsor. Does R2R look into sponsors or is it just pay x amount per month. Idk

Again as many have said, it is on you the buyer, to do the research.

If you don't like what they have then go somewhere else.

 

[apb03]

Until we can purchase a device that can quickly and accurately run a DNA analysis on a coral against a database, this problem is likely to persist.

We need names for corals for various reasons, and unfortunately, outside of community pressure, there's no way to prevent the misuse of naming for profit.

By and large, I think that issue is transient, however. With the industry consolidating into a group of large established coral vendors like TSA, WWC, POTO, Tidal Gardens and so on, I think the names will eventually standardize over time, even if the name TSA, for example, gives a coral that is a suspected duplicate from a lesser-known coral provider elsewhere.

That's my 2c anyway.

 

[A-10reefer]

I just wanted to bring up the discussion because i thought it would be interesting to see everyones responses.

I do find it intriguing that there is such resistance to accountability for paid vendors because "naming is stupid"

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I think the bigger problem with the vendors is how they treat us AFTER the sale.

This 2hr DOA (no consideration for a stressed coral that dies the next day or so) business and zero accountability for shipping delays is a real problem, IMO.

I’ve also noticed an awful lot of “classic” corals getting renamed. It’s usually easy to spot if you google the name and see that only this vendor is selling it. I just avoid these and find someone selling the “classic” for much less $$$ and then move along.

-Matt

 

[A-10reefer]

I think the bigger problem with the vendors is how they treat us AFTER the sale.

This 2hr DOA (no consideration for a stressed coral that dies the next day or so) business and zero accountability for shipping delays is a real problem, IMO.

I’ve also noticed an awful lot of “classic” corals getting renamed. It’s usually easy to spot if you google the name and see that only this vendor is selling it. I just avoid these and find someone selling the “classic” for much less $$$ and then move along.

-Matt

I do see some vendors offering 14 day garauntees now which is awesome. Definitely wish more would follow suit amd become the norm

 

[hunterallen40]

I do see some vendors offering 14 day garauntees now which is awesome. Definitely wish more would follow suit amd become the norm

We offer 7 days, but may consider increasing that to 14 days in the near future.

Stuff definitely happens, but with the price of these things... We should 100% make sure that the corals are in great shape before they go out the door, and packaging is our responsibility. While UPS / FedEx is not, that is just the cost of doing business imo.

 

[A-10reefer]

We offer 7 days, but may consider increasing that to 14 days in the near future.

Stuff definitely happens, but with the price of these things... We should 100% make sure that the corals are in great shape before they go out the door, and packaging is our responsibility. While UPS / FedEx is not, that is just the cost of doing business imo.

Thats awesome, thank you

 

[BeanAnimal]

I do find it intriguing that there is such resistance to accountability for paid vendors because "naming is stupid"

It is a a slippery slope. Where is the line drawn, who defines what is on either side and who deals with the people on either side of that that feel that they have been wronged? Where does it end?

R2R refuses xyz sponsor because they "misname" but abc sponsor is not rejected and they photoshop the snot out of everything... and cdf sponsor has a no refund policy and some upset buyers and mno sponsor posts politics on their website and is anti whatever their agenda is...

All the while, the sponsorships are what keep this place afloat.

So - the resistance is a simple matter of pragmatism and reality. There will be a never ending stream of opinions, honest and less than honest people on both the buyer and seller side. As a buyer you have to figure out a way to navigate this...

Coral names are insanely dumb because ANYBODY can name anything they want and there is no way to verify, confirm or recourse if there is a mistake or purposeful miasprepesentation. So as a consumer you should only consume after doing your own research and/or accepting whatever level of risk comes with it.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

We offer 7 days, but may consider increasing that to 14 days in the near future.

Stuff definitely happens, but with the price of these things... We should 100% make sure that the corals are in great shape before they go out the door, and packaging is our responsibility. While UPS / FedEx is not, that is just the cost of doing business imo.

We need more of you guys in the hobby.

Also, I think it would be fair for the customer to provide some system details (age, dkH, ect) to make sure that they aren’t plopping a temperamental coral into a newly cycled tank.

-Matt

 

[A-10reefer]

R2R refuses xyz sponsor because they "misname" but abc sponsor is not rejected and they

I get that, but there also isnt any reporting system, say vendor xyz refuses refunding, selling wrong stuff etc. Their should be a way to bring that to R2R attention as they are a paid vendor. It shouldn't have to be the wild west because someone pays every month

 

[Reefer Matt]

The whole lineage thing is messed up anyway. You are buying the brand name, not just the coral. A vendor may run out of their “signature coral”, and buy it from another source. It might look the same, but have different genetics. Then they still call it by the original brand name. Also, a lot of the coral are sold by wholesalers. Each vendor may buy and immediately name a “new” coral morph, and then it ends up with five names. Who gets “lineage” then?

 

[Troylee]

Im not trying to suggest R2R be the name police. That ultimately falls upon the vendors. Which is why having trustworthy sponsors is important.

Names are here to stay, thats just a fact. There are strains that are not being imported, is it rarity in the wild, i dont know. However, Its also an easy way to know what someone is talking about. Without the lineage debate, If i say i have og wolverines, you know what zoa im talking about. Which is a lot easier than saying i have a blue zoa and then playing the 20 question game.

What my whole point was with the post, was say joe bob corals was selling scrambled eggs as great owls. Similar colors, but very different strains. One is imported a lot with a low price tag, one was thought to be gone from the hobby that has made a resurgence with a high price tag. Sorry if theres an joe bob corals on here.

Its more with sponsor vetting snd accountability. Theres like an un written list of un trustworthy vendors for a lack of better words. I have no idea what the process is to become a sponsor. Does R2R look into sponsors or is it just pay x amount per month. Idk

I mean the holy grail torch is a classic example. Asd had the holy grail! It was priced high many many years ago! Plenty of wild ones come in now and it’s still priced through the roof and they’re wild collected. Same name, same color but zero lineage.. I hate the hobby turned this way but it is what it is! I’ve even seen them with barnacles and still want $425 a head ugh….

 

[BeanAnimal]

I get that, but there also isnt any reporting system, say vendor xyz refuses refunding, selling wrong stuff etc. Their should be a way to bring that to R2R attention as they are a paid vendor. It shouldn't have to be the wild west because someone pays every month

Currently - You can DM the staff and you can make a public post and there is vendor feedback

Any more puts R2R right in that position of being the arbitrator and/or force them to start making the very decisions that are a no win.

You are asking for something that sounds "simple" and "logical" until you actually consider how it would play out.

Fraud is fraud, and if you are a victim of fraud, then it certainly should be reported. However, fraud with regard to the trade name of a coral is simply not something that could be enforced or proven unless the trade name was trademarked and to that end DNA proof would have to be determined for both the trademark and the mis-label and even then the burden would be proving it was fraud and not a mistake.

I get the frustration, but buyer beware. Only deal with those who's policies are agreeable to your acceptable risk level.

 

[A-10reefer]

I mean the holy grail torch is a classic example. Asd had the holy grail! It was priced high many many years ago! Plenty of wild ones come in now and it’s still priced through the roof and they’re wild collected. Same name, same color but zero lineage.. I hate the hobby turned this way but it is what it is! I’ve even seen them with barnacles and still want $425 a head ugh….

And thats insane to me as theres a steady supply. If you see an import of god beasts as unkowm zoa let me know lol

 

[Battlecorals]

Coral names are insanely dumb because ANYBODY can name anything they want and there is no way to verify, confirm or recourse if there is a mistake or purposeful miasprepesentation. So as a consumer you should only consume after doing your own research and/or accepting whatever level of risk comes with it.

I couldn't agree more with this. The grim truth its that for everyone one of you, and by that I mean folks that are not interested in funny names whatsoever, there are 100 or more that want their coral named no matter how silly or ridiculous the name is. I think to the average hobbyist it's just kind of boring otherwise.

Believe me I have put this to the test a few time over the years now including absolutely absurd names and various options to buy without names attached. I even went as far as adding a button on the page to eliminate all the silly names completely in favor of species IDs as best I could. That button does not get hit often unfortunately. Nor do folks buy boxes under the "I don't care about names option". Some do but maybe only 10%.

I know this post doesn't really address the renaming and misnaming issues that the OP wanted to discuss but I do think it plays into the whole thing.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I look for names so I can research them. I don’t care how nice or how much you value your frag, I ain’t paying more for it than what the “going rate” is.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I couldn't agree more with this. The grim truth its that for everyone one of you, and by that I mean folks that are not interested in funny names whatsoever, there are 100 or more that want their coral named no matter how silly or ridiculous the name is. I think to the average hobbyist it's just kind of boring otherwise.

Believe me I have put this to the test a few time over the years now including absolutely absurd names and various options to buy without names attached. I even went as far as adding a button on the page to eliminate all the silly names completely in favor of species IDs as best I could. That button does not get hit often unfortunately. Nor do folks buy boxes under the "I don't care about names option". Some do but maybe only 10%.

I know this post doesn't really address the renaming and misnaming issues that the OP wanted to discuss but I do think it plays into the whole thing.

I would not likely hit the button due to exertion of energy that I could use for something else, but I don't give a hoot what somebody calls it or how rare or prolific it is. I purchase or trade for corals that I like the look of. If I remember the name, great! In reality the chance that I can name more than 1 or two corals in my aquarium is slim to none. I don't bother writing them down, saving the shipping information or even reading them on sites or at frag swaps. "Hi - how much for that" - "Oh the wah whahh waaha awa wha whaaha wah is $35" is all i hear. I don't even processes it and couldn't tell you what I purchased by the time I get to the next booth. I think it drives my hobby friends nuts. I just don't care.

I will not demean people that do otherwise, as each person has their own reasons for doing whatever it is they do from collecting coral to the way they chew bubble gum or pick their nose.

 

[hunterallen40]

I would not likely hit the button due to exertion of energy that I could use for something else, but I don't give a hoot what somebody calls it or how rare or prolific it is. I purchase or trade for corals that I like the look of. If I remember the name, great! In reality the chance that I can name more than 1 or two corals in my aquarium is slim to none. I don't bother writing them down, saving the shipping information or even reading them on sites or at frag swaps. "Hi - how much for that" - "Oh the wah whahh waaha awa wha whaaha wah is $35" is all i hear. I don't even processes it and couldn't tell you what I purchased by the time I get to the next booth. I think it drives my hobby friends nuts. I just don't care.

I will not demean people that do otherwise, as each person has their own reasons for doing whatever it is they do from collecting coral to the way they chew bubble gum or pick their nose.

I'm glad this is not important to you, but the names are more important to others than I think you realize.

One very useful part is that you can look up the name to get a sense of the going price point. This is extremely useful for the vendor, as your objective is to maximize your income. It's also useful as a consumer, as you know a good price when it presents itself. You can then ask yourself if you think that coral is worth the sticker price, and then make a more informed decision than you could otherwise.

You can also use hobby names to research more information. While lineage is hard to track and impossible to authenticate, in some instances it does tell you where that coral came from (some would ideally be all, but we've already established that's not the case). You can then use this info to map back to a species name when you are strugglinging to identify what a particular coral is.

But your point is absolutely heard, and I appreciate the fact that you sincerely just buy corals that you like.

I guess I'm interested... In your opinion, what would you want to see on a vendor website? What do you prefer for item names? What method would you use for pricing a coral?