Current Quarantine Protocol

[Jay Hemdal]

I am using copper power. So adding bottled bacteria would not have a negative effect? Would adding some developed media from my DT do the same thing? Thank you!

If you can add developed media from your main tank, that is always better than relying on bottled bacteria (those products sometimes have a lag time associated with them before they start working).

Just avoid media that is calcium based, that can absorb copper.

Jay

 

[Bear Claw]

If you can add developed media from your main tank, that is always better than relying on bottled bacteria (those products sometimes have a lag time associated with them before they start working).

Just avoid media that is calcium based, that can absorb copper.

Jay

Do you know if the searchem matrix media is calcium based? That is what I have in my tank. If so, should I just use bottled bacteria?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Do you know if the searchem matrix media is calcium based? That is what I have in my tank. If so, should I just use bottled bacteria?

No - it is not calcium based and is inert. It is most likely expanded silica/glass. You can safely use it during copper quarantines.

Jay

 

[Babyface63]

2023 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough


Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank. This process does not control Brooklynella, Uronema, viruses or internal parasites. Those issues however, make up a much smaller number of disease cases in marine fish.

Quarantine tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.

• Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
• The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD
• Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-absorbing sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
• Heater/thermometer
• Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
• Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank.
• A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate.
• A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
• Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.

Days 1 – 2: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.

• Set QT temperature to 78 - 80 degrees F.
• Acclimate the new fish to the QT:
  • Measure salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Adjust salinity in QT to within 2 ppt of the salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Acclimate the fish to the QT gradually over 45 minutes.
• Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
• Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.

Day 2: Begin Copper Treatment

• Add Coppersafe to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.25 to 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.25 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use.
• Never use ammonia removing products or other reducing agents (dechlorinator) when dosing copper. Most products bind copper with an amine to reduce toxicity to the fish. Reducing agents break that bond, releasing free copper that can harm the fish.
• Feed and top off tank water normally.

Days 3 – 32: Continue Copper Treatment

• Monitor copper ppm regularly. If the copper level remains steady day to day, you can test less often, but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you may need to restart the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
• Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
• If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes (pre dosed with copper) to correct the problem.

Day 34: Copper Done

• Begin copper removal through water changes.
• Binding agents Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process.
• Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.

Day 35: Praziquantel Treatment #1

• Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously.
• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label.
• Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.

Day 42, Day 49: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3

• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label, 7 days apart. Spacing needed for these treatments is based on killing new flukes hatching from previously laid eggs. The time interval is not well known. A range of 7 to 9 days seems to give the best results.

Day 64: New Fish QT complete

• Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose. Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10.
• Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
• Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.

Variation from this process:
Do not use copper on sharks, rays, eels or flashlight fish.
Wild caught clownfish are prone to Brooklynella, and may need formalin treatments.

All wild caught fish have a potentially high mortality rate from a variety of other reasons, just be aware that losing fish during this quarantine time can happen.

Thank you

 

[claydogg84]

@Jay Hemdal Lots of great information here, so thanks for that. I have a few quick questions as I'm dealing with a tank full of Ich at the moment and am getting ready to move the fish (2 clowns, Tomini Tang, pink spotted watchman goby, coral beauty, midas blenny, yellow clown goby). I have a 29 gallon tank setup and am getting the Copper Power up to 2ppm as advised by humble fish. My first question is when does the 30 day count start? As soon as the fish with visible signs of Ich are introduced to the 2.0 ppm copper power? Or do I start the 30 day count once the fish have no visible signs of Ich? Secondly, should I drip acclimate these fish, or just dump them into the QT tank? Most of the fish, if not all are currently showing signs of Ich so I'd like to move them into the treatment phase as soon as possible.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal Lots of great information here, so thanks for that. I have a few quick questions as I'm dealing with a tank full of Ich at the moment and am getting ready to move the fish (2 clowns, Tomini Tang, pink spotted watchman goby, coral beauty, midas blenny, yellow clown goby). I have a 29 gallon tank setup and am getting the Copper Power up to 2ppm as advised by humble fish. My first question is when does the 30 day count start? As soon as the fish with visible signs of Ich are introduced to the 2.0 ppm copper power? Or do I start the 30 day count once the fish have no visible signs of Ich? Secondly, should I drip acclimate these fish, or just dump them into the QT tank? Most of the fish, if not all are currently showing signs of Ich so I'd like to move them into the treatment phase as soon as possible.

When using Copper Power of Coppersafe against an active ich infection, it is best to get the dose up to 2.25 to 2.5 ppm ASAP. Don't raise the level slowly, that is old, incorrect advice, based on some fish being sensitive to ionic copper (not amine-chelated copper like this). You do need to test for copper accurately (the Hanna HR meter is best).

I prefer to use 30 days beyond the date that ich trophonts were last seen on the fish. Copper does not kill the tomonts, and you want to ensure that those have died off before removing the copper. At the very least, go with 30 days of above 2.0 ppm copper dose.

Drip acclimation should only be used in special circumstances. Just be sure that the temperature and salinity is the same between the two tanks and move the fish over. Here is a link to a general article on acclimation:

Acclimation Methods

Acclimating Animals to Aquariums Jay F. Hemdal c.2020 Introduction to acclimation techniques Most beginning aquarists hear that they must “acclimate” any new animals they add to their aquarium. Acclimation (sometimes termed...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[claydogg84]

When using Copper Power of Coppersafe against an active ich infection, it is best to get the dose up to 2.25 to 2.5 ppm ASAP. Don't raise the level slowly, that is old, incorrect advice, based on some fish being sensitive to ionic copper (not amine-chelated copper like this). You do need to test for copper accurately (the Hanna HR meter is best).

I prefer to use 30 days beyond the date that ich trophonts were last seen on the fish. Copper does not kill the tomonts, and you want to ensure that those have died off before removing the copper. At the very least, go with 30 days of above 2.0 ppm copper dose.

Drip acclimation should only be used in special circumstances. Just be sure that the temperature and salinity is the same between the two tanks and move the fish over. Here is a link to a general article on acclimation:

Acclimation Methods

Acclimating Animals to Aquariums Jay F. Hemdal c.2020 Introduction to acclimation techniques Most beginning aquarists hear that they must “acclimate” any new animals they add to their aquarium. Acclimation (sometimes termed...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Thanks Jay - I bought the Hannah HR Copper tester as well. I'll likely move them over tonight.

 

[Superlightman]

Does someone know the product protomor ?

PROTOMOR - Aquarium Münster

www.aquarium-munster.com

They say that it is reef safe.
I had again a white spot outbreak in my new tank, I quarantined them , give them a fresh water bath, rally bath and methylene blue bath before put them in the aquarium! A still got an outbreak when i added a new fish that stressed them. Seems sickness as really to do something with stress

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Does someone know the product protomor ?

PROTOMOR - Aquarium Münster

www.aquarium-munster.com

They say that it is reef safe.
I had again a white spot outbreak in my new tank, I quarantined them , give them a fresh water bath, rally bath and methylene blue bath before put them in the aquarium! A still got an outbreak when i added a new fish that stressed them. Seems sickness as really to do something with stress

I've not used that product, it isn't readily available in the US. However, it is malachite green and ethacridine. Neither of those would I use in treating marine fish diseases. Malachite green is not reef safe, except at low levels, and then, as the joke goes, it is also "parasite safe".

Jay

 

[Superlightman]

OK thanks for the information. Yes the manufacturer in Germany that I had contacted just told me that it is
- Malachitgrünoxalat
- Ethacridinlactat Monohydrat
- Methylthioniniumchlorida
He assured me that it is reef safe and works... Lucky I asked you befor.

 

[Superlightman]

I told it to the manufacturer and he says following :

Of course it is always a question of dosage. As I have already written, PROTOMOR contains several active ingredients. The interaction of the active ingredients is crucial here and not just the malachite green.

The drug works against the parasites and is safe for the corals. However, if you can treat the fish separately, there are more effective medications with higher dosages such as our FAUNAMOR. However, this is no longer tolerated by corals.

In addition, feeding with our Dr. Bassleer Biofish Food Matrine. This helps the parasite leave the fish and be better captured by the medication.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I told it to the manufacturer and he says following :

Of course it is always a question of dosage. As I have already written, PROTOMOR contains several active ingredients. The interaction of the active ingredients is crucial here and not just the malachite green.

The drug works against the parasites and is safe for the corals. However, if you can treat the fish separately, there are more effective medications with higher dosages such as our FAUNAMOR. However, this is no longer tolerated by corals.

In addition, feeding with our Dr. Bassleer Biofish Food Matrine. This helps the parasite leave the fish and be better captured by the medication.

Yes - I think what they are describing is a proposed synergistic effect between the component ingredients. There is a product in the US that says the same thing. However, I have an extensive library of fish disease books and this medication mixture is not mentioned in any of them.

Be wary of using food as an active treatment for diseases unless it has an appropriate medication in it at the correct dose. Biofish Food Matrine is an herbal product, with Sophora flavescens plant extract in it. That also does not appear in any of my fish medication formularies.

On this thread, we want to focus on the quarantine protocols that we are working with here. You might want to start a separate thread for these other products to see if other people have more experience with them.

Jay

 

[Superlightman]

Ok thanks

 

[claydogg84]

When using Copper Power of Coppersafe against an active ich infection, it is best to get the dose up to 2.25 to 2.5 ppm ASAP. Don't raise the level slowly, that is old, incorrect advice, based on some fish being sensitive to ionic copper (not amine-chelated copper like this). You do need to test for copper accurately (the Hanna HR meter is best).

I prefer to use 30 days beyond the date that ich trophonts were last seen on the fish. Copper does not kill the tomonts, and you want to ensure that those have died off before removing the copper. At the very least, go with 30 days of above 2.0 ppm copper dose.

Drip acclimation should only be used in special circumstances. Just be sure that the temperature and salinity is the same between the two tanks and move the fish over. Here is a link to a general article on acclimation:

Acclimation Methods

Acclimating Animals to Aquariums Jay F. Hemdal c.2020 Introduction to acclimation techniques Most beginning aquarists hear that they must “acclimate” any new animals they add to their aquarium. Acclimation (sometimes termed...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

The fish have been in the copper tank for 3 days. The 2 clowns, coral beauty, Tomini tang, and Midas blenny are all eating. The pink spotted watchman goby on the other hand is in rough shape. His slime coat is badly compromised. Is it possible for Ick to do this to the fish, or am I dealing with Brook as well?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The fish have been in the copper tank for 3 days. The 2 clowns, coral beauty, Tomini tang, and Midas blenny are all eating. The pink spotted watchman goby on the other hand is in rough shape. His slime coat is badly compromised. Is it possible for Ick to do this to the fish, or am I dealing with Brook as well?

Without a microscope and a skin scrape I can’t say for sure, but this does look like advanced ich not brooklynella.
Jay

 

[Superlightman]

Hello, I'm back with my problem with ich or velvet. Despite the quarantine I did I got as you now a new outbreak. I have two UV running, one powerfilter, even ad one oxydator. This slowed it down a some fish improved and seemed to developed immunity. But unfortunately not all some are worse and some died . I also try protomor in my tank as the manufacturer garantied me that it was reef safe. Wich it was not! It nuked out near all my bali and Australian sps! The only easy sps same stylo, seriatopora, montipora.. Softie and lps(was not happy but not died) are fine. We can definitely not trust the manufacturers! Seconde time this happens, I will never again believe them!
Neverless the product helped a bit but I did not the last day of treatment as it killed my sps. And now after a few days this dirty thing is back. So what can I do, to catch all the fish in this big tank, will be very difficult, and start two new quarantine tank for Fischs which just came out some weeks ago (one for cupper sensible and one for those I can do cupper) is difficult and my wife don't want to see all this tanks in the appartement again. Their is an alternative solution? Does seachem focus and metroplex work?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello, I'm back with my problem with ich or velvet. Despite the quarantine I did I got as you now a new outbreak. I have two UV running, one powerfilter, even ad one oxydator. This slowed it down a some fish improved and seemed to developed immunity. But unfortunately not all some are worse and some died . I also try protomor in my tank as the manufacturer garantied me that it was reef safe. Wich it was not! It nuked out near all my bali and Australian sps! The only easy sps same stylo, seriatopora, montipora.. Softie and lps(was not happy but not died) are fine. We can definitely not trust the manufacturers! Seconde time this happens, I will never again believe them!
Neverless the product helped a bit but I did not the last day of treatment as it killed my sps. And now after a few days this dirty thing is back. So what can I do, to catch all the fish in this big tank, will be very difficult, and start two new quarantine tank for Fischs which just came out some weeks ago (one for cupper sensible and one for those I can do cupper) is difficult and my wife don't want to see all this tanks in the appartement again. Their is an alternative solution? Does seachem focus and metroplex work?

Sorry to hear all that. The Protomor is a combination of malachite green and ethcridine. Both if these materials are toxic to invertebrates. Aquarium Munster evidently lowers the dose to the point where they are not toxic to invertebrates - but that leaves it non-toxic to the parasites as well!

Seachem and Metroplex works mainly for internal protozoans, and not very well against external protozoans that live outside the fish's skin. Also, almost everyone makes the dose wrong when doing that - the Metroplex needs to be about 1% by weight in the food....you can't just mix up a batch of it, you need a gram scale.

Jay

 

[dennis romano]

I have a question on the use of copper and other medications. We all know that copper is toxic to invertebrates. I am curious as to whether it has any effects on the bacteria that may be found in a fish's gut? If yes, what does that do to their nutrition intake?

 

[Superlightman]

Sorry to hear all that. The Protomor is a combination of malachite green and ethcridine. Both if these materials are toxic to invertebrates. Aquarium Munster evidently lowers the dose to the point where they are not toxic to invertebrates - but that leaves it non-toxic to the parasites as well!

Seachem and Metroplex works mainly for internal protozoans, and not very well against external protozoans that live outside the fish's skin. Also, almost everyone makes the dose wrong when doing that - the Metroplex needs to be about 1% by weight in the food....you can't just mix up a batch of it, you need a gram scale.

Jay

ok , so there is probably no other option than take my tank down and catch all fish for quarantine I suppose?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have a question on the use of copper and other medications. We all know that copper is toxic to invertebrates. I am curious as to whether it has any effects on the bacteria that may be found in a fish's gut? If yes, what does that do to their nutrition intake?

I don’t know for certain, but it seems to have little effect. Copper does not kill appreciable amounts of bacteria in aquarium water, so I would expect it to be even less harmful to the bacteria inside of a fish.
Jay