Ich won't kill fish?!

melypr1985

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The cycle done has to pass from ammonia to nitrite then nitrate. Are you agree me about that?
Let me tell you this, doesn't matter how much water change, nitrite still staying HIGH over night and fishes can not handle that.

I'm done with this conversation. Your obviously arguing for the sake of arguing. If the OP want's to read the links I provided they will explain how to QT properly and his other options if he should choose to just live with ick in his tank.
 

tthouston

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It's not the water that is cycled. The water column from an established tank carries very little of the beneficial bacteria. It's the mediums of filtration (sponge/floss/charcoal), substrate, rock that provide the needed beneficial bacteria in an adequate amount.
yeah I type wrong, not water. My meant the tank cycled. lol.
 
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Tahoe61

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UV won't eliminate ich. Either you have ich and don't know it or you have been lucky. No quarantine is like playing Russian Roulette, the end is usually the same...some just get to play the game longer than others. :D

^ This until the cows come home.

Typically I stay away from these threads because the majority of hobbyist that endorse UV, garlic and a number of scientifically unproven methods of treatment have not done the research to understand the life cycle of Marine Ich, why it pops up on occasion, they believe that if you can not see it on the fish it must not be present in the tank, that simply is not true.
A GOOD uv, with a GOOD bulb only treats those pathogens found within the water column. The parasite must pass through the UV filter, Marine Ich encapsulates in and on the substrate, it is not always found within the water column. UV can most definitely reduce the severity of an outbreak but it does not mean eradication of the parasite.
 

Humblefish

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We can not put fishes in new mix saltwater or buy new saltwater in lfs....they will die. We need to use saltwater with bacteria in DT first then mix up with fresh saltwater later on.
After he finish whatever treatment beside TTM with fishes and with the tank then the next fish he buy, he can using TTM to treat the new fishes. At this time, he can using saltwater from DT for this metal.

You can actually put fish in freshly mixed SW once the salt is thoroughly dissolved. I prefer at least 12 hrs mixing time, but in a pinch I've done it after only 4-6 hrs. However, once the fish is in SW it is only a matter of time before ammonia starts to build up (typically, 72 hrs). The solutions to that problem are as follows:
  • Ammonia reducer (temporary solution and not a good idea when using meds)
  • Water changes
  • Establish a working bio-filter to break down the ammonia (permanent solution to the problem)
In a DT, your bio-filter is typically rock, sand, bio-pellets, etc. However, in a QT with just a few fish a simple HOB filter can be used for biological filtration. I personally use an Aquaclear HOB power filter, utilizing the “foam insert” i.e. sponge it comes with. I “seed” the sponge (or multiples) in a high flow area of my DT’s sump (or you can put it behind your rocks) for at least one month prior to QT. This one month allows time for enough beneficial bacteria to transfer onto the sponge, so that it may be used as biological filtration once placed back in the power filter and used in QT. An alternative (albeit expensive) way to instantly seed your sponge is to pour some Bio-Spira, Seachem Stability or Dr Tim's Nitrifying Bacteria over it just prior to use. Below is a pic of the Aquaclear HOB power filter and correlating “foam” sponge (you can buy additional sponges cheaply):

lg-120207-FS64894K-fish.jpg
p-32929-61833-fish.jpg


My apologies to the OP for going a bit OT here; but hopefully this information will also help you setup a QT to treat your damsel.
 

jetmaker

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Ive descovered, for someone like me having a hard time being able to do a qt tank was... i got lucky with my 4 fish and decided not to buy more lol.

TTM requires patience and the will to put the work it....it is probally best method i have seen but not for anyone without patience imo
 

jetmaker

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If fish died quick it maybe velvet. It will will definitely kill Fish you will have to qt and run fallow
 

tthouston

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You can actually put fish in freshly mixed SW once the salt is thoroughly dissolved. I prefer at least 12 hrs mixing time, but in a pinch I've done it after only 4-6 hrs. However, once the fish is in SW it is only a matter of time before ammonia starts to build up (typically, 72 hrs). The solutions to that problem are as follows:
  • Ammonia reducer (temporary solution and not a good idea when using meds)
  • Water changes
  • Establish a working bio-filter to break down the ammonia (permanent solution to the problem)
In a DT, your bio-filter is typically rock, sand, bio-pellets, etc. However, in a QT with just a few fish a simple HOB filter can be used for biological filtration. I personally use an Aquaclear HOB power filter, utilizing the “foam insert” i.e. sponge it comes with. I “seed” the sponge (or multiples) in a high flow area of my DT’s sump (or you can put it behind your rocks) for at least one month prior to QT. This one month allows time for enough beneficial bacteria to transfer onto the sponge, so that it may be used as biological filtration once placed back in the power filter and used in QT. An alternative (albeit expensive) way to instantly seed your sponge is to pour some Bio-Spira, Seachem Stability or Dr Tim's Nitrifying Bacteria over it just prior to use. Below is a pic of the Aquaclear HOB power filter and correlating “foam” sponge (you can buy additional sponges cheaply):

lg-120207-FS64894K-fish.jpg
p-32929-61833-fish.jpg


My apologies to the OP for going a bit OT here; but hopefully this information will also help you setup a QT to treat your damsel.
Back to his issue, like you said fish can treat in fresh mix SW then how long? And after treatment where is fish going? Because the DT still long long way to treat for almost 2 1/2 months. After treatment those fishes had deal thru the QT cycled.
IMO, QT must finish cycled then treat the fishes.
 

tthouston

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Is anyone try setup the tank then introduce fishes right away in there and they are fine for 3 months? I hope someone say yes then i am ok.
 

Humblefish

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IMO, QT must finish cycled then treat the fishes.

As outlined above, the OP must use a filter on his QT which utilizes bio-media capable of housing nitrifying bacteria. The OP then goes and buys one of those "bacteria in a bottle" products, pours it over the bio-media, and then allows a few days for the bacteria to begin colonizing. Voila! Working bio-filter capable of breaking down harmful ammonia! :) So long as the OP keeps his bio-load reasonable (in this case, just 1 damsel) fish can live in such a QT setup for months with minimal water changes. Mainly just sucking fish poop/uneaten food off the bottom because it looks unsightly (I use airline tubing.) You can also scoop it out with a fine mesh net (ex. brine shrimp net).
 

sil40sx

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I'm done with this conversation. Your obviously arguing for the sake of arguing. If the OP want's to read the links I provided they will explain how to QT properly and his other options if he should choose to just live with ick in his tank.

Don't waste your time and effort typing. I think the guy clearly doesn't know what he's saying. Just ignore him. LOL
 

tthouston

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Don't waste your time and effort typing. I think the guy clearly doesn't know what he's saying. Just ignore him. LOL
hahahaha...Hey young boy or young man, don't jump in to make a war like that and act like i am a bad guy......hahhaha....I never create a war or fight in here. I am not said she wrong at all. I am a fan of those link and more than that, i am always follow those link before and i know what it is. I and everyone in here speak out more than one option then let he choose. Funny boy.....hahahaha
 

sil40sx

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hahahaha...Hey young boy or young man, don't jump in to make a war like that and act like i am a bad guy......hahhaha....I never create a war or fight in here. I am not said she wrong at all. I am a fan of those link and more than that, i am always follow those link before and i know what it is. I and everyone in here speak out more than one option then let he choose. Funny boy.....hahahaha

I don't have a plan arguing with you. I quoted the person, because my response was directed towards her, not you.

So I don't have a comment for you, other that I hope you have good rest of the weekend.
 

Lionfish Lair

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Is anyone try setup the tank then introduce fishes right away in there and they are fine for 3 months? I hope someone say yes then i am ok.

I kept an UNCYCLED tank for 7 months. No exaggeration. The medications didn't allow for the growth of bacteria. It wasn't until I put them down and had a necropsy done, that I found out there was no feasible cure. I didn't mean for it to go on so long. Then there was the 5 seahorses in a 10 gallon for 3 months. Being able to handle an uncycled tank is a good skillset to have, in this hobby. I don't recommend that route, as you really have to watch them, but what do you think we did when there wasn't even bacteria in a bottle.... well, besides Fritz-zyme powder that has been around since the dawn of man. We didn't/couldn't wait until we had another tank set up and cycled. We did water changes and measured parameters.
 
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tthouston

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I kept an UNCYCLED tank for 7 months. No exaggeration. The medications didn't allow for the growth of bacteria. It wasn't until I put them down and had a necropsy done, that I found out there was no feasible cure. I didn't mean for it to go on so long. Then there was the 5 seahorses in a 10 gallon for 3 months. Being able to handle an uncycled tank is a good skillset to have, in this hobby. I don't recommend that route, as you really have to watch them, but what do you think we did when there wasn't even bacteria in a bottle.... well, besides Fritz-zyme powder that has been around since the dawn of man. We didn't/couldn't wait until we had another tank set up and cycled. We did water changes and measured parameters.

Thank you for let me know that. That is good new for someone can introduce fishes right away and no need waiting the tank cycled. Here is a link I found in this forum with few professional help him to do exactly you said above.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-first-quarantine-log.245650/
 

ikegolani

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All good advice above. The one thing I would suggest is not using Hypo to treat for ich since there are several hypo resistant strains out there and also Hypo is hard to maintain correctly. CP, Copper and TTM are much better for treating ich with TTM (tank transfer method) being my personal favorite. As long as you have a fish in you DT the ich will remain. Your damsel is related to the clownfish and has a think slime coat that helps the damsel cope.
I personally am not a fan of copper. The survival rate of fish in hypo is much higher. It is unlikely that anyone would have hypo resistant cryptocaryon pathogens in their tank. As for maintaining parameters, it does take everyday maintenance. I would change 50% of the water everyday in the qt, also make sure you stay at 1.008 and no higher than that, or lower than 1.0075. It is likely that you're fish will get post cryptocaryon infections, so I suggest treating the water with antibiotics in conjuction with hypo. Most copper instructions don't recommend mixing any medication with it, which is why I love hypo. I had saved many of fish this way. Every fish in my tank has had hypo for a minimum of 14 days at 1.008 SG, never a casualty and no sign of cryptocaryon in my display. Fish tend not to eat very well in copper, it's bad news.
 

melypr1985

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I personally am not a fan of copper. The survival rate of fish in hypo is much higher. It is unlikely that anyone would have hypo resistant cryptocaryon pathogens in their tank. As for maintaining parameters, it does take everyday maintenance. I would change 50% of the water everyday in the qt, also make sure you stay at 1.008 and no higher than that, or lower than 1.0075. It is likely that you're fish will get post cryptocaryon infections, so I suggest treating the water with antibiotics in conjuction with hypo. Most copper instructions don't recommend mixing any medication with it, which is why I love hypo. I had saved many of fish this way. Every fish in my tank has had hypo for a minimum of 14 days at 1.008 SG, never a casualty and no sign of cryptocaryon in my display. Fish tend not to eat very well in copper, it's bad news.

All that is why Tank Transfer method is my favorite way to treat for ick. It doesn't use meds unless your combining other treatments with it like Prazipro. I've seen many instances where ick wasn't taken care of with hypo and that's because there are several strains that are resistant. Also, I keep hundreds of fish in copper at the LFS I work at and rarely have a problem with them not eating, but I use CopperSafe which is a chelated copper and much easier on the fish than Cuppramine. That's just my experience with it and I know there are fish that are sensitive to copper and I dont keep them in the copper system. Just my 2 cents :)
 

ikegolani

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We can not put fishes in new mix saltwater or buy new saltwater in lfs....they will die. We need to use saltwater with bacteria in DT first then mix up with fresh saltwater later on.
After he finish whatever treatment beside TTM with fishes and with the tank then the next fish he buy, he can using TTM to treat the new fishes. At this time, he can using saltwater from DT for this metal.
Not sure why you think you need bacteria in the water. He can leave the DT fish less for the 78 days and put his one little fish in a small 5.5g bare bottom tank with a small heater and a small powerhead/filter unit. This can be done under $40. Hypo that fish and change 50% of the water a day, that way you never give a chance for the tank to cycle. Have 5g buckets pre mixed for changing water. Once you get the system down its easy. All fish in my system have had success with this. I have treated an outbreak with 100% success.
 

ikegolani

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That's not true. You can use fresh mixed saltwater to set up a QT and dose a bacteria in a bottle product for the filter to get that started. Then you have an ammonia alert badge to keep track of the ammonia build up which will let you know when to do water changes. Please read this link.

http://reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/
I would recommend not using bacteria, and never let the qt a chance to cycle. Very large water changes daily will allow for a healthy environment, and there will never be a question of ammonia, and N02 in the tank. Use a small 5.5 gal, that way water changes are affordable and antibiotics which you will need to cure the infections your fish will get from post ich (cryptocaryon).
 

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