Red Sea Tank Fails, AGAIN! Any Recommendations?

[MnFish1]

They are engineered to exist - but alas, ask Frank Lloyd Wright what happens when you design with great aesthetics and poor engineering

Frank Lloyd Wright is dead

 

[MnFish1]

You can't hold your statistical opinion and conclusions WITHOUT the data and then demand my opinion/conclusion is only valid WITH the data.

The only "data" we have (mentioned several times) is that there are numerous other brands (many around for many decades) selling glass tanks of this size and no current or historical record of failure reports that rise to this frequency or level.

Again (mentioned several times) - WARRANTY has nothing to do with failure rates. NEW or USED - similar logic. If these fail USED at a higher rate than other brands, that would still indicate a design issue.

OK my opinion is that (and again it's an opinion) - RedSea tanks do not fail more or less than other tanks, Thats my thesis. Prove me wrong.

 

[MnFish1]

Bro that's a sick job full of cad. Really neat.

It's so unfortunate that you can't learn to use the quote function. No one knows the 'Sick CAD' you're referring to

 

[MnFish1]

What’s cracking me up is everyone is sold on rimless tanks now and puts a lid on them… totally defeats the look and purpose sooooooooo… get a euro and piece of mind! Just my 2…

Well actually - there are many 'lids' - that are not visible. so unfortunately - I disagree

 

[MnFish1]

You can't hold your statistical opinion and conclusions WITHOUT the data and then demand my opinion/conclusion is only valid WITH the data.

The only "data" we have (mentioned several times) is that there are numerous other brands (many around for many decades) selling glass tanks of this size and no current or historical record of failure reports that rise to this frequency or level.

Again (mentioned several times) - WARRANTY has nothing to do with failure rates. NEW or USED - similar logic. If these fail USED at a higher rate than other brands, that would still indicate a design issue.

Actually - what I said was 'call the source'. I have 2 large tanks. I'm not worried (ok a little worried) - but I've called RedSea - I have a paper trail. BTW - IMHO - you're wrong about used tanks. For example - perphaps people have sold a used tank - with a silicone repair. etc etc.

 

[MnFish1]

Innovative Marine tanks using the APS metal stands have the entire tank supported from what I’ve seen. Their doors are flush to the stand instead of having doors flush to the tank…

for peace of mind, I prefer the IM metal stands that support all of the bottom including the front glass.

agreed - but - no one has shown/proven that the RedSea design is better or worse.

 

[MnFish1]

Well actually - there are many 'lids' - that are not visible. so unfortunately - I disagree

Innovative marine tank. disaster

Today i got home from work just to find my room with water all over the floor. I go check my tank and see a big crack on the side of the bottom of the tank. I was only able to save my pair of clown fishes and some snails. Tomorrow i'll be taking them to my lfs. If i ever get back to the hobby...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[MnFish1]

Innovative Marine tanks using the APS metal stands have the entire tank supported from what I’ve seen. Their doors are flush to the stand instead of having doors flush to the tank…

for peace of mind, I prefer the IM metal stands that support all of the bottom including the front glass.

Sorry I posted this link in the wrong message: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/innovative-marine-tank-disaster.913193/

 

[Troylee]

I do not think one of the biggest aquarium manufacturers in the world - is designing based on a coin flip. My guess is that they researched it some. lol. There are also multiple other rimless tank manufacturers. Now - I will give you the point - when I got the tank(s) was like hmmm. the edge is hanging over. RedSea says they have dealt with it. cantilevered glass

That’s a whole different means and methods.. that glass is mechanically fastened and in tracks not held with a flexible adhesive.. you’ll never see a shower door or glass shelf held on with just silicone.. I get your point and I understand your thinking, and the glass hanging over isn’t the end of the world but it is without a doubt adding un needed stress on the joints.. I don’t believe it’s the contributing factor here but it most def doesn’t help.

 

[MnFish1]

That’s a whole different means and methods.. that glass is mechanically fastened and in tracks not held with a flexible adhesive.. you’ll never see a shower door or glass shelf held on with just silicone.. I get your point and I understand your thinking, and the glass hanging over isn’t the end of the world but it is without a doubt adding un needed stress on the joints.. I don’t believe it’s the contributing factor here but it most def doesn’t help.

Agree. So what you said was. The glass hanging over the edge is not the end of the world. Then you said you don't believe it's the contributing factor here but it doesn't help'. I agree with this. And my comment would be - if the stand is at all out of alignment - this could be a problem. But generally speaking - it's not.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I do not think one of the biggest aquarium manufacturers in the world - is designing based on a coin flip.

A few thoughts on that:

1- don't be so sure. You would be dumbfounded at the products that go to market and infrastructure, etc. where proper engineering is/was not done.... or done AT ALL!

Thing if something like this - Aquariums are "known art" and just as you are unclear as to why a trimmed tank is stronger than an untrimmed tank... so may be the guy in charge of design who copied a known design and "tweaked it" without engineering a solution. I.E. overhanging front glass with no brace and xyz brand of silicone.

2 - Sometimes corners are cut and safety margins whittled to the bone for cost or ease of manufacture or *gasp* aesthetics. Happens every day. What "bob" engineered and what "gary" put into production don't always match.

3 - Sometime even if engineering is done "properly" - said engineering (mentioned several times) fails to account for common real world circumstances or use --> Looks good on paper and in analysis, but fails real world. Happens every day.

4 - Sometime even if the engineering is done "properly" - quality control and materials used don't always provide the "reference" standard that was designed to, but rather something less. Happens every day.

My guess is that they researched it some. lol. There are also multiple other rimless tank manufacturers. Now - I will give you the point - when I got the tank(s) was like hmmm. the edge is hanging over. RedSea says they have dealt with it. cantilevered glass

You are stuck on this cantilever thing for some reason and I still don't understand the context.

The bottom line (again) is that there appears to be a higher reported failure rate (and mostly all the exact same failure mode) than any other aquarium out there. So you are free to draw whatever conclusions you wish in the face of what we know. I will stick with logic and have laid out why

 

[areefer01]

2 - Sometimes corners are cut and safety margins whittled to the bone for cost or ease of manufacture or *gasp* aesthetics. Happens every day. What "bob" engineered and what "gary" put into production don't always match.

Bob who works for a company contracted out by Lockheed Marten in Colorado used English measurements. On the other hand Gary who is part of the JPL navigation team used metric as it relates to spacecraft position.

And thus the climate orbiter crashes into Mars. A $120 million dollar oops...

 

[BeanAnimal]

Actually I can - because I've done my homework. I've called RedSea. LOL - I've reported that I bought my tank - and that if there is a problem I will be asking for help. I've also talked to my LFS - the owners of which have a large version of the XXL in their living room. Come on.

Come on what?

I have laid out logically what most of us are seeing and you are denying at all because you and your LFS have tanks that haven't failed and the Manufacturer told you (and oddly only you) that they have a low rate of failure based on thousands upon thousands of sales? Come on

 

[BeanAnimal]

It's so unfortunate that you can't learn to use the quote function. No one knows the 'Sick CAD' you're referring to

Pretty clearly the post above his with the CAD drawing of signs.

This conversation is devolving. Time to see my way out.

 

[BeanAnimal]

That’s a whole different means and methods.. that glass is mechanically fastened and in tracks not held with a flexible adhesive.. you’ll never see a shower door or glass shelf held on with just silicone.. I get your point and I understand your thinking, and the glass hanging over isn’t the end of the world but it is without a doubt adding un needed stress on the joints.. I don’t believe it’s the contributing factor here but it most def doesn’t help.

From where I sit it is a HUGE factor. The silicone joint bears tremendous load in this scenario compared to 4 supported edges.

 

[MnFish1]

Come on what?

I have laid out logically what most of us are seeing and you are denying at all because you and your LFS have tanks that haven't failed and the Manufacturer told you (and oddly only you) that they have a low rate of failure based on thousands upon thousands of sales? Come on

actually you are misstating what I said. I said sympathies to all of those with this issue. If it were me - and I had bought a new tank - and it had x thousand dollars of coral - I would be hiring a lawyer. On the other hand - there are many many people with no issues. - So in reality - you're kind of correct - it's hard for me to come to terms with who is at fault. And so what - it's only my opinion. I have denied nothing - you're again mis-stating what I said. I said - and I'll say it again - as far as I know - there are a small percentage of people with a problem. I suggested those people contact RedSea - at least a couple have said - I bought the tank used. Then we debated the overhanging glass - which at least a couple people (including me) - have said is a non-issue. Did I miss something?

 

[MnFish1]

Pretty clearly the post above his with the CAD drawing of signs.

This conversation is devolving. Time to see my way out.

I was talking about Brandon - I did not see a CAD drawing from him

 

[BeanAnimal]

- there are many many people with no issues....
...as far as I know - there are a small percentage of people with a problem.

All I have done is indicate that given the body of evidence before us, that I don't agree with your assessment.

Then we debated the overhanging glass - which at least a couple people (including me) - have said is a non-issue. Did I miss something?

Give you questions and comments, I don't think you have the training or physics/engineering background to determine it to be an issue or not.

You are making an assumption that the manufacturer did their due diligence, is being honest and forthcoming and that mistakes don't happen either. That is fine, I just don't think the evidence before us proves that

I don't care one way or the other. Like I said, I don't own one and never will. I am just commenting on what I see before my and trying to apply some general logic/sanity to it given what I can see. I think most of us understand that we will never likely know the truth no matter what happens. In the end, this is just a conversation of interest.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I was talking about Brandon - I did not see a CAD drawing from him

He was commenting on Troylee's cad drawings of the Vegas Sign scaffold.

 

[FlyPenFly]

Also keep in mind, companies will absolutely release products with a known possible failure rate. These are human made devices and go through who knows what during shipping, LFS storage, and then installation. A certain percentage will absolutely fail and that’s acceptable to the company.

I’ve seen LFS with limited space store heavy stuff on top of rimless tanks at weird angles… in my head I thought that can’t be good.