Reef Crystals This Cannot Be Normal?!

[Acrononomus]

Ive been using reef crystals and instant ocean since I entered into this hobby.... I have always noticed that the mixture was cloudy after 4 hours or 24 hours, clear but not crystal clear, I've seen almost a foam on top sometimes... I've had some very successful sps systems with this salt... This worries me though because I plan to setup a wage change system now that will change 5 gallons a day over the course of a month.... So will the salt mix precipitate and become super cloudy over that time? Should I mix the salt for 4 hours and then leave the circulation pump off? Or contuine to circulate over the course of the month.....? I know this is different, but the natural sea water they sell in stores is not being circulated so ? That makes me wonder if that's the route I should take.... But do they store it with nitrogen inside , so oxygen can not caus problems??? Things to consider....

 

[Cory]

Ask Bob Fenner...he gave a great presentation on why, changed my thinking

What made you change your mind? Got a link?

 

[Battlecorals]

"precipitate" could be an incorrect term for this sediment....

One of RHF's articles that addresses mixing saltwater talks about the temperature differentials created by pumps and heaters causing mineral precipitation.

Seems like seawater contains nearly everything under the sun anyway....and whatever you want to call it, this is stuff is designed as part of the salt mix and obviously causes no issues....other than a discussion like this every so often.

Tropic Marin leaves a black residue (that I also do not worry about), if that makes you feel any better.

I agree. Longtime TM user here as well. But I've used many different salts over years and they all did this. I should take a pic of my 175 gallon reservoir. Solid brown, maybe a few mm thick even. Never been a problem whatsoever, in well over a decade. I never empty it completely and it always sits a few weeks to a month before i do a big WC. And with regards to RC, i think it's pretty common knowledge for the most part. However i did find a big chunk of rust in a bucket of RC years ago.

 

[DurocShark]

I use Kent Marine Reef Salts btw

I did too. I mix well in advance (like a week) of water changes. It left a tar-like residue behind. Seachem's Reef Salt does leave a residue, but it's a tiny fraction of what the Kent left behind.

 

[ReefJunky]

I remember back in the 1990s when I used to use Tropic Marin, every so often I'd get a bag of salt mix that would have a brown precipitate which was pretty bad. I seem to remember there was usually a little bit, but it was minimal. Eventually when I got a bad batch I called the 1-800 number for customer support to ask about it and was told that as a part of the manufacturing process they filter/purify the dissolved salt water through a filter tower packed with some type of clay, then it's dehydrated, powdered and bagged. Every so often when they replaced the clay filter material, the first several batches of salt mix would have a lot of clay particles in them and when they were mixed to use, the clay would settle out as a brown precipitate. They said it was harmless and would not hurt fish, corals, etc. So basically, it was just annoying to the reef keeper. IO and RC might be made in a similar way, but that's just my best guess. I don't use them. My personal preference is hw-marinemix REEFER. I think I get the best results with it. But when you really think about it... which salt is better is probably just a question of if you take the blue pill... or the red pill and see just how deep the rabbit hole goes. Basically a large part of reef aquarium success is how stable and constant the water conditions are! Just like most people... corals hate change!

 

[dallast]

I also use hw-marine mix reefer -- same brown residue if I let the pump run for a couple of days. And like a previous person mentioned, there is a weird smell. I have left my Brute trash can empty for months after years of use as a saltwater mixing station, only for that weird smell to persist. I am now wondering if there is some reaction with the container itself and the saltwater mix???
Has any one ever mixed their salt in an empty glass tank? Would be interesting to find out!

 

[Humblefish]

I use both RC and IO, and with RC I get the brown residue sometimes but with IO I do not.

Oceanic is my fav reef salt (Alk 8.5, Cal 580, Mag 1650), but it's hard to find.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I think you will find if you add your salt mix slowly to your r/o di water, wait a while and then slowly bring it up to 1.026-1.027 you will have less precipitation from any brand salt mix. The other problem is organics and other contaminants can cause a bacteria bloom. If you make your salt water in a new tank setup you will have the same brown gunk but the skimmer will remove it. Try this take one gallon of water and add two cups of salt mix at once you will see precipitation that will not dissolve. Then take one gallon of water add one cup while mixing wait until clear the then add the second cup one half a cup at a time. It will all dissolve. Adding to much salt at a time will cause to high a ph and cause precipitation.

 

[mcarroll]

I think you will find if you add your salt mix slowly to your r/o di water, wait a while and then slowly bring it up to 1.026-1.027 you will have less precipitation from any brand salt mix.

True.

I think mixing method figures in here though.

Most saltwater mixing scenarios you read about are something like a MaxiJet or Mag pump dropped into a bucket.

Or at best, a pump drawing from the bottom of the mixing vat with the outlet at the top of the mixing vat.

Neither solution is very good - slightly better than air stones in my own testing - so adding the salt slowly is MUCH more important.

On the other hand, use a mixing paddle - or even your hand - and the mixing is much more efficient.

My solution: 36" TAMCO polypropylene mixing paddle, # 23096 ($30):

There are many more-efficent methods of mixing than the ones used "on average".

I just happen to favor the paddle cuz it takes no power and it's the fastest thing I've tried. (I'll note another "paddle mixer" has chimed in on this thread!)

Propellor pumps (like a Tunze nanostream or converted MaxiJet Pro) and paint mixer attachments for your drill are two other superior solutions you don't hear of too many people using.

 

[ESVAreefer]

Either way I like 20 minutes with a messed up spare powerhead to mix an entire batch of Red seas salt. I have enough to worry about without having to deal with impurities in my salt that cause brown build ups, that's why I switched. I always worry about junk in my mix that the manufacturers don't tell us about, knowing there is junk in it just makes me switch brands. I feel that if I want spare junk in my water I'll use tap water. I've shared my experiences so there's the rest of my .2c

 

[NanaReefer]

How often do you do water changes?

Used to be 5g bi-weekly. Now 5g weekly.

 

[renato120]

I have been in this hobby on and off for 9 years. Mostly using RC. 2 years ago I started my 60 cube with RC. I slowly switched to RSCP for no reason. My tank went down hill. Not saying it was the salt. Parameters was stable. Sps's and zoos were all bleaching and melting. I upgrade to a 120g, still using RSCP. A month ago I slowly switched back to RC, and believe it or not, my tank is doing better. Very noticiable. Zoos are more open growing crazy. Some of my sps's are now healing. I dont care about this brown residual.
This is my tank as of a couple hours ago using RC.

 

[NanaReefer]

I don't get a

ny brown in my mixing buckets but I have had a problem with my sand for the last couple months and it is a new batch of RC. **** I order this stuff 5 boxes at a time.

Look anything like this? My SB's been this way for 2yrs!

 

[Bruce Burnett]

If you are mixing small batches a paddle works well but 50 gallon batch is not as easy. Many people have been using reef crystal for many years with the brown gunk with no problems. I don't get it as I only make a gallon or so at a time. My water changes are to replace 3-4 gallons a week from what is removed by skimmer. My first major water change will be next month just to clean unsightly detritus from bare bottom tank. The brown I did get when I would make 50 gallons at a time looks just like the crud buildup in my pellet reactor using all in one pellets.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Look anything like this? My SB's been this way for 2yrs!

not from your salt mix, maybe a little cyno and algae. More water flow and cleanup crew. More cleaning of the sand bed. If you want to keep your sand bed white takes more work and the right cleanup crew. With bare bottom you can almost keep the bottom clean with lots of water movement.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

I use a brute with usually a mag 5 or 7 in the bottom pointing up, RODI and heater to temp. Then I pour in 1 cup of salt at a time, and a sort of "sift" it for lack of a better term (shake back & forth letting salt drizzle off a little at a time across water surface). I don't just dump all the salt in at once.

Doing this with RC I would still get the gunk, no precipitate. It would take hours to start to clear up, it wouldn't ever really get clear, a bit cloudy but fine in the tank. Honestly not sure that matters, prob not.

Doing this with aquacraft it mixes crystal clear in no time and shutting off the pump keeps it from turning cloudy, pretty much indefinitely (for my purposes)

As for Bob's presentation, it was at a fest a year ago, mainly pertaining to chemical interactions between all life in a system. Short version: no water changes means a chemical soup that everything I the tank will/can generally adjust to, but good luck adding anything to the tank. GAC/GFO can get you some of the way but there's too many other unknowns. Dosing can throw off levels over time and some we can't measure with hobby test kits. Even small regular PWCs help very much to keep things in check.

 

[Cdavis179]

New here, not to reefing. I've used RC extensively for years. I use heated 78 degree ro/di water mixed by hand in 5 gallon buckets within a few minutes with 0 issues and no residue... Tank is 75 gallon, 20 gallon sump, with 3-4 buckets changed at time (monthly)... Tank is cloudy for a few hours but clears up with no no brown or residue...

 

[briancarterkc]

I get this residue in my mix bin. My tank is perfectly happy. I don't know what it is but it doesn't seem to affect anything.

 

[Cdavis179]

Fwiw.. just to add to this.. I used to just make my ro/di in a 30 gal brute and just heat (no pump) it before I wanted to do an h2o change.. It'd sit for a few days... On inside of brute with ro/di only I'd notice a film.. Couldn't tell since gray... Second occurance of film with ro/di... Top off water... No pump also equaled film (and smell) ... Put pump in... No film or smell... Not a biologist... Just noticing observations and saying what works for me..

Reefing is like a diet... Do what works and what you can stick with...

 

[ESVAreefer]

Basically all we've learned is use the salt that works for you. In all reality the info is so conflicting, mixed and sometimes downright unbelievable, that there is no magical salt mix that is perfect in every way every time. Use the brand you like, if you fail in this hobby it's not likely to be your salts fault! Happy reefing