These prices ... really?
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Ringo®
Community Member
You're absolutely correct. The cost of acquiring the $10 per frag acro is the same as the $700 per frag acro.
akitareefer
Active Member
I have a pack for sale right now that has 13 pieces. And one if them is a mini colony for $200 shipped.
A while back I listed a frag pack of sps unknowns and unnamed
Good price and nice sized frags with descriptions of the color and species
Not 1 person interested. My buddy came over and decided he would name all my unknown pieces. Changed the add with names now added. And my pm box became full real quick.
The names on corals are great for tracking pieces. But when someone just buys a name. It's gone too far
As far as crazy prices. No one is forcing you to buy them. There are plenty of bargain corals out there for dirt cheap. And those same corals had the same price they did 15 years ago. The more colorful and the less it's imported and the more it's gonna cost
And I think someone is exaggerating a little bit about a lfs asking $380 for a birdsnest coral. I have been to lfs in 15 states or more and never seen someone trying to rip someone off that bad. If they were and it's true. Then they aren't worthy of discussion in this thread. Because that's not the norm
Did you ever step back and realize most of the expensive corals are expensive for a reason ? Those
Color combinations and species are not seen very often and supply and demand sets the price.
Everyone constantly says it can't be rare and the only one because the ocean is so huge Look at a few of the more expensive corals in the last few years
Jawbreaker mushrooms. Years later and no one has found thousands covering rocks. Guess they are kinda rare
Krakatoa zoa. Same here.
Jaw dropper acro. Yes this one was ps for sure. But still a pretty awesome color combo without
Ps
The point is. There are limited supplies of some of these corals which makes them more rare and wholesalers and vendors are pricing them accordingly
You have to pay to play
This is the first response in a couple of pages I've seen worth commenting on its the truth I can't even count how many countless times I see zoa frag packs where they will have gorgeous named zoa's and then a couple random unnamed in the lot where people will go can I take all but these or a zoa pack with all unamed but gorgeous zoas with not a pm sent reply or comment under the thread. People want to say they hate the naming but the naming half the time sells it. People love names I love sunglasses do i buy from the mall stand with the look alikes noo because quality sucks do i buy the 150 dollar pair of named yes because its brand recognition and their quality stands behind it. Some of these top named vendors stand 10 fold behind their frags and would gladly send you a new one if said frag dies in tank and it cost you that much money. Their not all evil as most of you paint them out to be.
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reeffirstaid
Active Member
Wait a second ...? I am confused. Name brand sunglasses, such as Oakley or Maui Jim, have features that are unavailable on other sunglasses, such as a patented polarized lens. What these vendors are doing, is more akin to taking a pair of commonly available sunglasses, and calling it something special, then selling it for as much, or more, than the name brand stuff. Naming a coral, is just that, pulling some name out of your imagination and placing it on a coral. Perhaps it makes corals sell, even if it does, it's simply a gimmick, and I assume the buyer likely doesn't understand that a name, doesn't make a coral special, or even unique. Looking at the location a coral came from, whether aqua-cultured, from Bali, the Red Sea, Australia - makes sense, as some locales worldwide are known for healthy corals. Also, with the exception of 1, I've not found an online retailer, or LFS, that hasn't tried to weasel their way out of offering refunds. Again, with the exception of 1, anytime I've had a problem with a coral shipment, the vendor has named every excuse imaginable to not issuing a refund. Even when water samples were sent, along with pictures, and everything was in line, they find an excuse as to why their policy, "doesn't apply to this situation." I don't think coral vendors selling named corals for high prices are evil, but I will say that there are serious ethical questions raised, about whether it's right or fair, to do what they are doing.
Daniel@R2R
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Here's my .02. I don't have an issue with vendors charging what they can for corals, nor do I have an issue with those who choose to collect those high end collector's pieces (I realize the very idea of "high end" coral is debated...but I figure that for the purposes of this post it can be called "high end" if for no other reason than its price is on the high end whether you agree that it's of higher quality or not...right?). I might be aggravated by the higher prices if not for two factors:
1) This is a hobby, and so it's not like we're talking about something anyone actually NEEDS...I can't remember the last time anyone NEEDED a coral.
It's all about WANT. In that sense, this hobby (like most things in our society) is controlled by supply and demand. I know that some will say that greed comes into play here. However, why would any smart businessman sell something for $10 when he knows he can get $50, and why sell for $50 when he knows he can get $500? In a supply and demand market, prices are ultimately controlled by the buyer since the seller will only charge what he can sell for. I don't think price of corals really has to do with the cost of collecting them since that would mean they would all have a high price tag...they don't, and that's because it's controlled by supply and demand from those who want, can, and will pay the higher price. ...but thankfully, we're not talking about food, housing, or medication which would fall into the NEED category...this all has to do with WANT.
2) Thankfully, there are plenty of corals at all ends of the price spectrum. There are corals that go for $5-$10 for frag with multiple heads and there are frags that are selling for $2500 per head. A person who wants to set up a reef tank is not at all obligated to break the bank in order to have nice pieces. However, someone who likes to collect the higher priced stuff can absolutely do so (and shouldn't have to feel bad about it). It all comes back to what someone wants out of the hobby.
So, this debate gets a whole lot of air time as there are plenty of opinions flying around. Everybody has one, and they're usually more than happy to share it. However, in the end, this hobby ends up with people on both ends of the spectrum and vendors who cater to both ends of the spectrum. I personally have bought high priced corals (and like them) and I have bought $5 frags (and like them). To each his own...enjoy the hobby and don't get worked up over this stuff...
...and, yes, I did type this whole thing while sitting at Starbucks and enjoying a cup of coffee that cost more than most coffee I could have bought anywhere else. Why?? Because I LIKE Starbucks!
1) This is a hobby, and so it's not like we're talking about something anyone actually NEEDS...I can't remember the last time anyone NEEDED a coral.
It's all about WANT. In that sense, this hobby (like most things in our society) is controlled by supply and demand. I know that some will say that greed comes into play here. However, why would any smart businessman sell something for $10 when he knows he can get $50, and why sell for $50 when he knows he can get $500? In a supply and demand market, prices are ultimately controlled by the buyer since the seller will only charge what he can sell for. I don't think price of corals really has to do with the cost of collecting them since that would mean they would all have a high price tag...they don't, and that's because it's controlled by supply and demand from those who want, can, and will pay the higher price. ...but thankfully, we're not talking about food, housing, or medication which would fall into the NEED category...this all has to do with WANT.2) Thankfully, there are plenty of corals at all ends of the price spectrum. There are corals that go for $5-$10 for frag with multiple heads and there are frags that are selling for $2500 per head. A person who wants to set up a reef tank is not at all obligated to break the bank in order to have nice pieces. However, someone who likes to collect the higher priced stuff can absolutely do so (and shouldn't have to feel bad about it). It all comes back to what someone wants out of the hobby.
So, this debate gets a whole lot of air time as there are plenty of opinions flying around. Everybody has one, and they're usually more than happy to share it.
However, in the end, this hobby ends up with people on both ends of the spectrum and vendors who cater to both ends of the spectrum. I personally have bought high priced corals (and like them) and I have bought $5 frags (and like them). To each his own...enjoy the hobby and don't get worked up over this stuff......and, yes, I did type this whole thing while sitting at Starbucks and enjoying a cup of coffee that cost more than most coffee I could have bought anywhere else.
Why?? Because I LIKE Starbucks! 
Kworker
Tang Lover
...and, yes, I did type this whole thing while sitting at Starbucks and enjoying a cup of coffee that cost more than most coffee I could have bought anywhere else.
I really want a Macchiato now.. unfortunately, I bought an expensive frag so cant afford one..
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I really want a Macchiato now.. unfortunately, I bought an expensive frag so cant afford one..
Heh heh...priorities...priorities...
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reeffirstaid
Active Member
It is for sure that no one needs a coral. Though, if done correctly, with proper direction and advice, the reef aquarium hobby can be affordable and nearly anyone can be a successful aquarist. Over hyping a coral, which may not be rare, unusual or super colored, and especially over hyping it and altering it in photoshop, then selling if for some enormous price, isn't an ethical way of doing things. Several years ago, an acquaintance of mine called me, excited that he got, "this green coral that glowed under his night lighting." I went over to see it. He had a rock of green star polyps. I explained to him that lots and lots of corals have florescence in their tissues, and will glue under blue light. He got a somber look, explaining that he paid $ 200 bucks for it, and was told that it was rare because it glowed at night. I explained to him, that I had a green star polyp rock, twice that size, that I paid 40 bucks for. If folks want to defend businesses for that type of behavior, go right ahead. The line between what was done to that aquarist, and the hyped up, named and 1,200 chalice eyes, is very thin and quite blurry.
Starbucks clover coffee = delicious!
Delicious Starbucks coffee is an oxymoron
I have been known to drop some money on some corals, but lately some of these prices that are popping up just don't sit well with me. If they can get those prices, good for them I suppose, but it's generally not good for the hobby and I feel it's mostly those hobbyists that don't know any better that are buying these corals. It's far easier to get caught in the hype when you haven't been doing this for a while...
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reeffirstaid
Active Member
I have been known to drop some money on some corals, but lately some of these prices that are popping up just don't sit well with me. If they can get those prices, good for them I suppose, but it's generally not good for the hobby and I feel it's mostly those hobbyists that don't know any better that are buying these corals. It's far easier to get caught in the hype when you haven't been doing this for a while...
I agree with you 100%
I agree with you 100%
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reeffirstaid
Active Member
There are plenty of corals at all ends of the price spectrum, for now at least. The cost of corals has steadily increased, since I entered the hobby 16 years or so ago. Some of that is natural inflation, some is the shared cost of improved collection techniques, but a sudden jump in something that was once 50 or 60 dollars, to 1,250 is neither inflation or increased collection cost. It's outright greed. How long till other retailers, if they are of that free market mindset, start raising their prices, and a simple Kenyan Tree Leather is $ 400. It may be true that the market sets the value of something. Though, scrupulous retailers, who are being dishonest, and downright greedy, help the market get out of whack entirely.
The line between your friend getting ripped off for a common coral that can be found anywhere for $5. And 1200 an eye chalices is not fine
They are in 2 totally different ball
Parks
On one hand you have someone totally ripping someone off for something that is found in every store in the country. On the other you have chalice that may only have up
To 20 pieces in the country.
Supply and demand dictates it is going to sell for a lot more. The guy who pays $1200 for his chalice is happy to own it. And your friend is crying because he got ripped off
Your describing a totally different discussion of someone just straight up robbing someone. And that is not the norm for any lfs in the country
Where do you live that lfs are charging $200 for gsp and $380 for birdsnest. Because like I said earlier I have been to over 100 different lfs I. Multiple states and never seen anyone trying to get that kinda cash for those corals
Here's the thing. Those corals were never 50 and 60 dollars because 15 years ago. They weren't Around
15 yeas ago I could go buy a green hammer colony for $40. And guess what. I can do the same thing today. You seem to forget that color equals
Money. 15 yeas ago brown corals got brown coral money. If there were rainbow chalices 15 years ago. They would have fetched rainbow chalice money
Look what happened when the $500 efflo came on the scene. One of the first collector type acros to hit the scene. Yup. Sold for $500
http://www.reeffarmers.com/limited500dollarefflo.htm
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reeffirstaid
Active Member
As Rev asked, we are not to name any names. And the line isn't fine. A lot of chalice corals, under certain conditions, are very pretty. Are some of these offered for 1,200 dollars an eye unusually pretty, not really. A few minutes ago I just looked at a chalice frag, nearly identical to one I have. I paid 60 bucks for 3 eyes, this particular site wants $ 400 per eye, making my coral a $ 1,200 value, according to this site. It's creating hype and leading a customer to believe that what they are getting is rare, and worth an enormous price.
RichieT
Valuable Member
I guess this new wild stuff could be renamed $50,000 Acro. I think the big difference in your example is that the $500 efflo was for the entire colony
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reeffirstaid
Active Member
I didn't say green star polyps, or any particular species were 40 or 60 dollars 16 years ago. I was noting, that the cost of corals has steadily increased over the years, due to a variety of factors. You can buy a nice RBTA for about $ 150, or you can buy one called an ultra rainbow acid rain RBTA (or any creative name) for $ 675.00 per small clone. Same anemone, coloration just as good on both, one is just $ 525 more than the other. We know the vendor sure didn't pay anything like that for it, but they are hyping it up and selling it.
If a well informed person wants to spend hundreds on a coral, that's fine. If a retailer wants to get hundreds or thousands, that is fine too, I guess. It's impossible to look at that, and think that it has a positive impact on the whole of the hobby, or that it's a fair or legitimate business practice.
If a well informed person wants to spend hundreds on a coral, that's fine. If a retailer wants to get hundreds or thousands, that is fine too, I guess. It's impossible to look at that, and think that it has a positive impact on the whole of the hobby, or that it's a fair or legitimate business practice.
Doesn't matter to me what the name is, what the color is, what type it is. A coral will never be worth $1,200 per eye, per polyp, per 1" unless it can hop out of the tank and cook dinner for me. That's personally speaking and I'm not looking down on someone who does feel a coral is worth that to them. Personally I have a hard time paying $50 for a coral. The most I have spent on one coral was $100. It was a 7" blue slimer, not a single polyp speck on a plug. I still had a hard time paying that much for it. I'm cheap, really cheap. I'm going to go to the lfs, see a big colony for $80 and then notice the tiny frag or single polyp that fell off. That's when I ask if they will sell it to me for $10. I have spent lots of time searching the nooks and crannies for little leftover bits.
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