Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[twilliard]

With that image I only see strands of algae.
I would back off the bleach as the bubbles can be hydrogen gasses from microbial decomposition.

 

[terri_ann]

I know, the hand is the hubby's. I was standing using my cell. If you look at the dark circle and then go in, you will see the viewer. The circle surrounded by black left of top center. Couldn't get any other pics...the scope is as old as we are:9(

 

[terri_ann]

I took a 3 pics to get this one for ya! Lol. This is one of the things we saw... Well that picture is crappy. Sorry guys.

@twilliard , you are right in that there is GHA in the pic. From my previous post describing what we saw, do you have any thoughts? One of the slides had about 5 of those 'black o-rings with a clear/transulcent center.' The 'worm' thing that the hubby saw move, I am wondering if it was maybe a cyano bacteria. Anyway, the hubby never saw anything that he thought would resemble a dino and I had shown him several different dino pics. So...just wondering where I should go from here? Would appreciate any thoughts.... Thanks!

 

[maksim serebro]

So....I was wrong... I paid $57 for the microscope. I bought it as a bundle with slides and slide covers along with some additional stuff... I seem to recal though it was $25... Sorry if I misled you!

I just looked up the scope now on Amazon prime and it is $79.98 now.

AmScope Optical Glass Lens All-Metal LED Compound Microscope, 6 Settings 40x-1000x, Portable AC or Battery Power https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005O0XVTS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_mDBZxbJ6PM9RF

I'm thinking of getting this microscope. Can you please tell me how you prepare your slides and what magnification you are using. I haven't used a microscope since the college days. Thanks !

 

[jgvergo]

I PMed him a couple of weeks ago, but no response

 

[dansreef]

I PMed him a couple of weeks ago, but no response

Not sure if you are referring to me.... If so, never got a PM from you.

@Maksim.... I don't really prepare much. Just a droplet on an open slide is enough for lower power viewing. Off the top of my head...I don't recall that level of magnification. You will very clearly see DINOs and their movement. Refer to a previous post with pictures. That was at the lowest magnification....then with my Samsung S6 Active phone taking the pictures.

If want higher magnification.... You can add a glass cover. I have heard Twilliard say he used a little heat to stop them from moving. I am not sure the value of higher magnification...

 

[dansreef]

Hi Terri_Ann

Sorry... Been pretty busy and not online.... See my answers to your questions below.

So my questions are:
1. if they are encysted and non-motile, how will they be removed from the system? Good Question... No Clue. I am also not sure if what I see are encysted DINOs. If I can get a picture in the next few days I will and will post.
2. why did you almost double your dose from the 1st regime? Based on some feedback around being more aggressive...and not killing them off totally the first time...and no apparent negatives shown by fish and corals...I took a risk. It appears to have worked.
3. the first 3 days, you dosed 25ml twice a day...now, just one 25ml dose...why? I saw an almost immediate decline and Eli inaction of identifiable DINOs...within a couple of days. I switched to a maintenance dosage of 25 mls at night and am observing... If it had such a huge immediate impact on the DINOs and nothing else....perhaps a maintenance dosage will keep them in check or even eliminate them...all together.
4. leaving the cyano where it's not interfering with corals, are you hoping the cyano will smother what dinos might be laying under the cyano? To me...it appears that the cyno out competes the DINOs that I have... If leaving th cyno in the system coupled with the once a day dosage of 25 mls can kill these dang things off...then that would be great. Whether cyno smothers DINOs....that I don't know. The samples of the cyno I have taken show a complete void of DINOs and anything suspected to be a encysted DINOs.


I hope this helps.

 

[maksim serebro]

Not sure if you are referring to me.... If so, never got a PM from you.

@Maksim.... I don't really prepare much. Just a droplet on an open slide is enough for lower power viewing. Off the top of my head...I don't recall that level of magnification. You will very clearly see DINOs and their movement. Refer to a previous post with pictures. That was at the lowest magnification....then with my Samsung S6 Active phone taking the pictures.

If want higher magnification.... You can add a glass cover. I have heard Twilliard say he used a little heat to stop them from moving. I am not sure the value of higher magnification...

Thanks, already ordered microscope with slides through the link you provided. Thanks again!

 

[jgvergo]

Not sure if you are referring to me.... If so, never got a PM from you.

@Maksim.... I don't really prepare much. Just a droplet on an open slide is enough for lower power viewing. Off the top of my head...I don't recall that level of magnification. You will very clearly see DINOs and their movement. Refer to a previous post with pictures. That was at the lowest magnification....then with my Samsung S6 Active phone taking the pictures.

If want higher magnification.... You can add a glass cover. I have heard Twilliard say he used a little heat to stop them from moving. I am not sure the value of higher magnification...

Sorry dansreef, I was referring to @twilliard, not you.

 

[twilliard]

Sorry dansreef, I was referring to @twilliard, not you.

Sorry I will go look in the box. I must have missed you!

I have been terribly busy getting kids and myself ready for school.
I am enrolled full time into college so I apologize for my absence to come.

 

[jgvergo]

Sorry I will go look in the box. I must have missed you!

I have been terribly busy getting kids and myself ready for school.
I am enrolled full time into college so I apologize for my absence to come.

That is a GREAT reason to be too busy for the forum

 

[dansreef]

So... Another quick update. The cyno is in full bloom. Covering a lot of the Rock and sanded. No sign of DINOs. I checked water parameters and Phospates are .04 and nitrates around 1. I did siphon a lot of the cyno out....not all....but a lot....and am maintaining the 25 ml nightly dosing of the 5.25% bleach. This maintenance dose does not seem to be negatively impacting beneficial bacteria, other microfauna ....pods are all over the ATS and in the display.

It will be interesting to see if the DINOs reemerge with the cyno being removed. My guess is I will need to siphon a couple more times. I am also hoping the maintenance dose of bleach will keep things in check.

More later...

 

[Reeferhigh]

I believe I have beat Dino's, can't find a cell anywhere. But I beleive I now have Cyano Lyngbya, does anyone know if bleach or peroxide would be best for this?

 

[maksim serebro]

So... Another quick update. The cyno is in full bloom. Covering a lot of the Rock and sanded. No sign of DINOs. I checked water parameters and Phospates are .04 and nitrates around 1. I did siphon a lot of the cyno out....not all....but a lot....and am maintaining the 25 ml nightly dosing of the 5.25% bleach. This maintenance dose does not seem to be negatively impacting beneficial bacteria, other microfauna ....pods are all over the ATS and in the display.

It will be interesting to see if the DINOs reemerge with the cyno being removed. My guess is I will need to siphon a couple more times. I am also hoping the maintenance dose of bleach will keep things in check.

More later...

Keep us updated. I'm getting my microscope tomorrow. Main tank is looking horrible. Not sure if it's dinos. If it is, it looks different from dinos I had before. If it is dinos again, I'm ready to give up. Maybe it's not meant to be.

 

[maksim serebro]

I believe I have beat Dino's, can't find a cell anywhere. But I beleive I now have Cyano Lyngbya, does anyone know if bleach or peroxide would be best for this?

What was your method? Congrats!

 

[terri_ann]

Hi Terri_Ann

Sorry... Been pretty busy and not online.... See my answers to your questions below.

So my questions are:
1. if they are encysted and non-motile, how will they be removed from the system? Good Question... No Clue. I am also not sure if what I see are encysted DINOs. If I can get a picture in the next few days I will and will post.
2. why did you almost double your dose from the 1st regime? Based on some feedback around being more aggressive...and not killing them off totally the first time...and no apparent negatives shown by fish and corals...I took a risk. It appears to have worked.
3. the first 3 days, you dosed 25ml twice a day...now, just one 25ml dose...why? I saw an almost immediate decline and Eli inaction of identifiable DINOs...within a couple of days. I switched to a maintenance dosage of 25 mls at night and am observing... If it had such a huge immediate impact on the DINOs and nothing else....perhaps a maintenance dosage will keep them in check or even eliminate them...all together.
4. leaving the cyano where it's not interfering with corals, are you hoping the cyano will smother what dinos might be laying under the cyano? To me...it appears that the cyno out competes the DINOs that I have... If leaving th cyno in the system coupled with the once a day dosage of 25 mls can kill these dang things off...then that would be great. Whether cyno smothers DINOs....that I don't know. The samples of the cyno I have taken show a complete void of DINOs and anything suspected to be a encysted DINOs.


I hope this helps.

Thanks for your answers Dan! I hope you can post a picture or 2:0) I hope you have succeeded in killing all dinos! I feel your hypothesis of the cyano outcompeting the dinos is probably more likely than smothering them. I like your thinking of a maintenance dose! Do you have any idea how long you will continue the once/day (nightly) dosage?

So... Another quick update. The cyno is in full bloom. Covering a lot of the Rock and sanded. No sign of DINOs. I checked water parameters and Phospates are .04 and nitrates around 1. I did siphon a lot of the cyno out....not all....but a lot....and am maintaining the 25 ml nightly dosing of the 5.25% bleach. This maintenance dose does not seem to be negatively impacting beneficial bacteria, other microfauna ....pods are all over the ATS and in the display.

It will be interesting to see if the DINOs reemerge with the cyno being removed. My guess is I will need to siphon a couple more times. I am also hoping the maintenance dose of bleach will keep things in check.

More later...

Thanks for the update! I find it interesting that your PO4 is .04 and NO3 at 1ppm. Identical to what mine are. I am not getting any cyano but I am getting GHA. I added pods about 2 weeks ago and do not see any sign of them except for dead ones at the waterline. I too went to a more aggressive approach, actually increasing the dosage and dosing 3 times/day. This might account for not seeing any pods and Todd's response about the possible hydrogen gasses from microbial decomposition. I have discontinued bleach, added 2 bottles of Dr. Tim's One & Only and have begun feeding corals. I continue to skim very wet, have dechlorinated (Prime), baste off the bubbles on the corals twice/day, and every couple days take a soft bristled toothbrush to the GHA on the corals and frag plugs. I am trying to reestablish the bacteria and raise NO3. I am not concerned about the GHA at this time however I do not want it overtaking the corals :0) I will again add copepods when I receive the Live Phyto I've ordered. Hopefully when all this is accomplished, I can return the fish and BTA's to the tank.

Keep updating Dan! Thanks!!

 

[dansreef]

Hi Everyone. You know the saying.... you play with the Bull every once in a while you get the horns.... Well.... I may have experienced the horns last night.

So... I siphoned off about 5 gals of water yesterday along with all the cyno I could. I had intended to do a dose of 25 mls of bleach last night....but fell asleep before I did. The same thing happened Wednesday night too.... so I have gone two days without dosing. This normally would not have been a concern. As I was getting #2 ready to head out to the bus we were sitting in the chairs looking at the tank.... there was a dead fish under an outcrop of the rockwork in my tank. It was my huge fox face dead. I sounded off a couple of expletives... and removed him from the tank. I then found my Tomni Tang... ditto... dead. At this point I got my daughter off to the bus....went for a walk with the dog...swearing at myself for a good while. When I returned I went looking for other fish. My flame hawk and flasher wrasse... MIA. I have looked high and low... under and over... around and about.... nowhere to be found. In summary.... 4 fish.... either dead or gone in a matter of hours.

So before people say it was the bleach... lets review. I did not dose for the last two nights. What I did do is as follows:

1) I scrapped the sides of the tank that had slime and algae and more cyno.
2) I siphoned off cyno and about 5 gals of water....which I replaced with 1.025 mix.
3) Replaced filter socks with two new ones... from BRS. I rinced them before placing them. This was the last two of a box of 6 total I bought from BRS. No issues with the previous 4.
4) I have dosed some MB7 over the last few days... and did so when I replaced the 5 gals from siphoning.

Nothing here would suggest that I did anything that could have caused a fish die off. Corals look fine. Not terrific....but fine... nothing real new there. So... nothing to indicate a problem. I fed some nori and mysis later in the afternoon. All seemed fine. FF, Tomni ate well... not sure about the hawk and wrasse. I just don't remember anything out of whack.

Water parameters this morning are Nitrates 1, Phospates .06, PH 8.02 Temp 78. Salinty is 1.023, I fed Nori from the same pack as I have been using... and Mysis from the same pack I have been using. The other fish, Naso and Yellow Tangs, PinTail Wrasse, Diamond Goby, Bi-Color Anthias, Coral Beauty....all seem fine. I have a ground rod for the tank so no stray voltage. nothing else seems off.

Theory... I had mentioned that the DINOs has cysted off... and that I found some of these suspected cysts in the film on the side of the tank. I am thinking that it is possible that the fish that died may have ingested this material from the side of the tank when I scrapped things down. It is possible that these cysts were toxic to those fish and they succumbed last night.

I talkd through this with my neighbor over lunc who is also a reefer addict like me. He is a little blown away about my using bleach in the fist place. But... nothing seemed to be negatively impacted by the 2x a day nor the maintenance of 1x a day. There are no other outside contaminants of the tank that I am aware of. Right now.... all fish that are still in the tank are fine and not acting weird. The corals are no different today than yesterday. The cyno was not all removed... and is growing again. No DINOs yet detected.

Very Strange... My neighbor did mention that his fish loved to eat the scraping when he cleans the sides of the tank. I did not notice my fish doing so. That also would not explain the wrasse and hawk fish.... both would not eat such material....you would think. But... this seems like a plausible explanation. My other thought is that these fish were compromised from the bleach dosing in the first place and perhaps were more susceptible to something happening. Don't know.

Moral of the story.... the cure sometime may be worse the plague. I am bummed that four otherwise seemingly healthy fish either die or disappear in a single evening. I am going to be watching the tank like a hawk for the weekend...and praying that things don't proceed to get worse.

Now.... lets hear ideas.... right now.... I have no other explanation. I am getting closer and closer to moving towards a fish only tank.

 

[puffy127]

Man, so sorry for your losses. What a bummer.

 

[Africangrey]

I lost a cleaner shrimp 3 day after the treatment which was a major bummer for me, so the long term effect of bleach on the animal is unknown.

 

[terri_ann]

So, so sorry Dan to hear of your fish You may not ever know "why" which is even more frustrating for one. Have you checked ammonia? Did you check the gills on the dead fish? I would suggest testing ammonia and dechlorinating the tank. Again so sorry. Keep us posted dear!