Question about the type of Hydrogen peroxide that is best. Food Grade 35% or Pharmacy grade 3%?
Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!
- Thread starter twilliard
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Ok, so this was previously identifed as not dinos, but I really think now it is. The only area with bubbles in it is on the skimmer return. But its stringy, I'll Mix and stir the sand bed, then a day later it's back to stringy. Running gfo for about 5 days now, which isn't much but I haven't seen any changes, which makes me belive it's not algae.
Ok, so this was previously identifed as not dinos, but I really think now it is. The only area with bubbles in it is on the skimmer return. But its stringy, I'll Mix and stir the sand bed, then a day later it's back to stringy. Running gfo for about 5 days now, which isn't much but I haven't seen any changes, which makes me belive it's not algae.
Looks like Dinoflagalites to me.
terri_ann
Well-Known Member
@Nick92515, The pic looks like its your overflow...
Could you clean everything off (overflow and tank walls, baste off your rocks) and then NOT stir the sand bed. Then run everything for a while, a few hours or a day, and then take a pic. I'm not sure as bubbles alone is not an indicator of dinos nor is strands of stuff. Just need a good pic of what you think is dinos...
Can you tell us about your system...size, age, why you think you have dino's? Thanks.
Could you clean everything off (overflow and tank walls, baste off your rocks) and then NOT stir the sand bed. Then run everything for a while, a few hours or a day, and then take a pic. I'm not sure as bubbles alone is not an indicator of dinos nor is strands of stuff. Just need a good pic of what you think is dinos...
Can you tell us about your system...size, age, why you think you have dino's? Thanks.
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dansreef
Well-Known Member
Hi Everyone. Well... At Twilliards suggestion via PM... I ran another dosing regimine to eliminate the Dino bloom I got when I siphoned out the cyno. This time I almost doubled the initial dosing that knocked the DINOs down the first time. I am running 5.25% bleach. I am dosing 25ml to the tank of about 200 gals total volume. The first three days I dosed when lights went off and then again before lights came up. I have since reduced the frequency to once a day at lights off. Still at 25 ml per dose. I did not see any adverse impact on the fish. I am also not seeing any issue with the new corals I had introduced which included and nice elegance frag, cabbage, some other leathers like evils paw and neon toad stool. I am seeing that the hammers that have not been doing well...continue to degrade a bit. I have a a moti that is now battling cyno and not happy. I have fuzzy mushrooms that seem to be doing well. Two others a very small slimmer frag and a red digi frag...and they don't seem to be doing much. Not sure if this is bleach related to not....or a combination of Dino and cyno.
I just did a survey of the tank taking a dozen or so samples....and no DINOs to be found. No slime on the walls or overflows either. I did take a scrapping of the glass where the DINOs started to amass earlier and interestingly... No DINOs in the form I have seen before...but signifanctly shrunken Dino like cells in a gel if you will. No movement at all from these cells. They also are more green than the orange/reddish appearance of the DINOs. I would gauge that they are about a 1/10 the size of the DINOs I have been battling. I wonder if these are the dreaded cysts that they form when they go dormant. Twilliard ...does this sound right?
My plan is to let the cyno continue and manage it away from corals.
One last comment.... I have read people asking what others think about if something is Dino related. My suggestion...go buy a small microscope. This is by far the best, quickest and most reliable way to tell you have DINOs. I bought mine for like $25 and I use a single glass slide at the lowest magnification... In about 30 seconds... You will be able to tell if you have DINOs...or diatoms or cyno. If you think about how much we spend on treatments, on corals, fish...etc... It is worth the investment....to positively ID these darn things. I have two kids as well... They get a kick out of see stuff too from the tank. Just my two cents worth. I have also heard some LFS have microscopes and can take a look at samples of materials in question.
The battle continues!
I just did a survey of the tank taking a dozen or so samples....and no DINOs to be found. No slime on the walls or overflows either. I did take a scrapping of the glass where the DINOs started to amass earlier and interestingly... No DINOs in the form I have seen before...but signifanctly shrunken Dino like cells in a gel if you will. No movement at all from these cells. They also are more green than the orange/reddish appearance of the DINOs. I would gauge that they are about a 1/10 the size of the DINOs I have been battling. I wonder if these are the dreaded cysts that they form when they go dormant. Twilliard ...does this sound right?
My plan is to let the cyno continue and manage it away from corals.
One last comment.... I have read people asking what others think about if something is Dino related. My suggestion...go buy a small microscope. This is by far the best, quickest and most reliable way to tell you have DINOs. I bought mine for like $25 and I use a single glass slide at the lowest magnification... In about 30 seconds... You will be able to tell if you have DINOs...or diatoms or cyno. If you think about how much we spend on treatments, on corals, fish...etc... It is worth the investment....to positively ID these darn things. I have two kids as well... They get a kick out of see stuff too from the tank. Just my two cents worth. I have also heard some LFS have microscopes and can take a look at samples of materials in question.
The battle continues!
OP
OP
twilliard
Tank pests..
Nice!
Progress for sure. That is a wise statement about scopes. We as tank owners spend so much money on "guessing" for solutions when a $200 scope will tell you exactly what the problem is. We all spend money like this every year on our tanks. This should be just another tool on the shelf.
dansreef
Well-Known Member
I bought it a while ago. Sorry. I would suggest going to Amazon and searching around. Mine was a steal.
dansreef
Well-Known Member
So....I was wrong... I paid $57 for the microscope. I bought it as a bundle with slides and slide covers along with some additional stuff... I seem to recal though it was $25... Sorry if I misled you!
I just looked up the scope now on Amazon prime and it is $79.98 now.
AmScope Optical Glass Lens All-Metal LED Compound Microscope, 6 Settings 40x-1000x, Portable AC or Battery Power https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005O0XVTS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_mDBZxbJ6PM9RF
I just looked up the scope now on Amazon prime and it is $79.98 now.
AmScope Optical Glass Lens All-Metal LED Compound Microscope, 6 Settings 40x-1000x, Portable AC or Battery Power https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005O0XVTS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_mDBZxbJ6PM9RF
dansreef
Well-Known Member
I use the lowest. You can easily ID them with the that. If you want greater detail...the higher magnification is nice. I like the greater field of view to scan.... The photos I have posted earlier in this thread is using the lowest Magnification using my S6 Active asamsung phone.
terri_ann
Well-Known Member
@dansreef ...Interesting. Can you post of pic of the dinos that you think are encysted? It sounds to me like they are encysted
So my questions are:
1. if they are encysted and non-motile, how will they be removed from the system?
2. why did you almost double your dose from the 1st regime?
3. the first 3 days, you dosed 25ml twice a day...now, just one 25ml dose...why?
4. leaving the cyano where it's not interfering with corals, are you hoping the cyano will smother what dinos might be laying under the cyano?
So my questions are:
1. if they are encysted and non-motile, how will they be removed from the system?
2. why did you almost double your dose from the 1st regime?
3. the first 3 days, you dosed 25ml twice a day...now, just one 25ml dose...why?
4. leaving the cyano where it's not interfering with corals, are you hoping the cyano will smother what dinos might be laying under the cyano?
terri_ann
Well-Known Member
Maybe Todd/@twillard or someone can answer these: If the dinos encyst and are no longer moving, how are they exported out of the system? Does the bleach have any effect on encysted dinos?
I am no longer seeing any color associated with a single string/strand or the bubbles. Everything is clear,eg the strands & bubbles. I'm wondering if any strands/strings I see are from the corals' slime? How do I collect the bubble(s) and strand/string to put on a slide to look at it under the microscope? I am beginning to get some GHA which entraps bubbles but am not seeing any sign of cyano. As soon as I try to collect the GHA, the bubbles disappear. Because I have been dosing bleach for weeks, I am guessing if any dinos remain, they are encysted.... I guess what I am trying to say is that I'm spinning my wheels I see no reduction in bubbles and have been dosing 3ml twice to 3 times daily for the past week for approximately 65 g TWV. I'm open for suggestions, ideas, etc........
I am no longer seeing any color associated with a single string/strand or the bubbles. Everything is clear,eg the strands & bubbles. I'm wondering if any strands/strings I see are from the corals' slime? How do I collect the bubble(s) and strand/string to put on a slide to look at it under the microscope? I am beginning to get some GHA which entraps bubbles but am not seeing any sign of cyano. As soon as I try to collect the GHA, the bubbles disappear. Because I have been dosing bleach for weeks, I am guessing if any dinos remain, they are encysted.... I guess what I am trying to say is that I'm spinning my wheels
I see no reduction in bubbles and have been dosing 3ml twice to 3 times daily for the past week for approximately 65 g TWV. I'm open for suggestions, ideas, etc........
terri_ann
Well-Known Member
It's not that the pics are not clear, it's that it looks like a lot of detritus is in the pic. Stirring the sandbed and the subsequent cloud that arises from stirring the sandbed, makes it difficult to see what is really there. If I have to guess from the pics above, I'd say it looks more like cyano on the rocks and snail.
OP
OP
twilliard
Tank pests..
If you have any fine pipettes that is the easiest way to collect a sample without disturbing it.Maybe Todd/@twillard or someone can answer these: If the dinos encyst and are no longer moving, how are they exported out of the system? Does the bleach have any effect on encysted dinos?
I am no longer seeing any color associated with a single string/strand or the bubbles. Everything is clear,eg the strands & bubbles. I'm wondering if any strands/strings I see are from the corals' slime? How do I collect the bubble(s) and strand/string to put on a slide to look at it under the microscope? I am beginning to get some GHA which entraps bubbles but am not seeing any sign of cyano. As soon as I try to collect the GHA, the bubbles disappear. Because I have been dosing bleach for weeks, I am guessing if any dinos remain, they are encysted.... I guess what I am trying to say is that I'm spinning my wheels
During my dosing all the strands turned white and have not seen any since.
terri_ann
Well-Known Member
Lol. On my phone and have taken samples. If possible, try to look at pic with your phone. Here's what we have seen...nothing that looks like dinos. Saw a transparent thing long, like a worm and moved. Also, saw what looked like an O-ring...black and not color in center. Last, a very, very small speck that was bright green in the center and the outer rim was red. In that center of green, it looked like 3 separate cells. No, we haven't been drinking or smoking anything but we are old! Lol @twiwllard, any ideas? This has me totally baffled. I do not see any changes with continued bleach dosing...lots of micro bubbles on corals, frag plugs, GHA. GHA continues to increase daily. Looked for cyano under scope also and "maybe" saw some?
Very hard to see from that pic, camera seems focused on your hand Terri Ann
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