Japanese Deepwater Zoanthids.

[Speg]

You would have to sell the tags too for when people buy them and frag them so they can be further tracked from the source. I'm also thinking that wouldn't fly over seas, most people don't want people knowing their collection spots and the culture in some places are pretty brutal compared to ours. Example, a wholesale in Indo was caught fooling around with a young girl and he was murdered. His body was found in a hotel room and his head was found in his car, lol. There is also lots of stories of divers comming up missing etc...

not to get off topic..but it sounds like his crime wasn't diving.... let the punishment fit the crime...sounds like he got what he deserved

 

[BlueWaterTropicals]

not to get off topic..but it sounds like his crime wasn't diving.... let the punishment fit the crime...sounds like he got what he deserved

Atleast we agree on something, haha!

 

[Speg]

I gave you the facts that they are not illegal to collect, so thats not an opinion. You can look through CITES website under Japan and you will see about 95% of their corals are LEGAL to collect. So I want to know who got the idea that they were illegal and that the costs were higher to ship then any other coral because they are not. The prices are slightly higher then Indo Zoa's wholesale, in some cases double the wholesale price for the comparable size.

Were you not corrected on the zoa species that you discussed?

 

[Bongo Shrimp]

All I'm saying is that at this point this is not a useful thread. The vendor you've questioned, that spawned this thread has provided more valid information than you have in my opinion. What would you think if you were a newb visiting this site for the first time and came across this thread?

Is it just me or am I missing something? ^^^

 

[thewackyreefer]

I have to "LOL" at all of the paperwork suggestions seeing as nobody's ever forged a doc before. Dead horse, beat it.

 

[Speg]

All I'm saying is that at this point this is not a useful thread. The vendor you've questioned, that spawned this thread has provided more valid information than you have in my opinion. What would you think if you were a newb visiting this site for the first time and came across this thread?

It's information and could be very useful to someone entering the hobby. Wouldn't you agree? What's wrong with presenting information and having a discussion about it?

I'm not sure what information was provided that was more valid.

 

[thewackyreefer]

Is it just me or am I missing something? ^^^

Well, there's proof corals can be collected and exported from Japan, right? You're missing something.

 

[Bongo Shrimp]

Valid information = Paperwork

I see nothing.

 

[Bongo Shrimp]

Well, there's proof corals can be collected and exported from Japan, right? You're missing something.

IDK? I still haven't seen the proof.

 

[thewackyreefer]

For all of those asking for CITES info on Japanese Zoa's... I have been in contact with several authorities in Japan and all of them say it is NOT illegal to ship Zoa's out of Japan and that they are NOT regulated under CITES. So no permits required if you're wondering what that means. However, when it comes to harvesting them, you can not take more then the rock they are atached to as the rock is protected.

What more do you need than this? Obviously they can and ARE being exported.

 

[BlueWaterTropicals]

Valid information = Paperwork

I see nothing.

Japan Zoa's do not require permits=no paperwork other then shipping invoices

 

[Bongo Shrimp]

Japan Zoa's do not require permits=no paperwork other then shipping invoices

That counts as paperwork.

 

[BlueWaterTropicals]

That counts as paperwork.

I would like to see any vender show their invoices on here with nothing hidden.

 

[Bongo Shrimp]

What more do you need than this? Obviously they can and ARE being exported.

That doesn't show that the person claiming they have them actually has them and it doesn't show anything about deepwater.

 

[Speg]

"You should confirm the trade chain of Zoanthus sansibaricus harvested in Japan, whether your supplier legally
harvested your coral from sea or not. "

Was this ever done by the way?

Drainbramage mentioned that his zoas are generally on coralline algae. I've personally never purchased zoanthids that were on big slabs of coralline algae...that seems like a pretty delicate thing to collect... (wild)zoanthids I've purchased have always come on rock or dead coral.

 

[Bongo Shrimp]

I would like to see any vender show their invoices on here with nothing hidden.

Well I guess until that happens this will just never be a closed case then.

 

[thewackyreefer]

Innocent until proven guilty?! Not in this thread!

 

[Speg]

Reread this part of the article:

"
Exporting live coral from Japan adds a tremendous amount of time, costs, paperwork and red tape. It’s not worth this effort when the same coral can be found in popular locales, such as Bali, for much less money and without the legal risk. Never mind the exorbitant overnight freight costs when shipping anything out of Japan. Or the fact that anything over a few mm of scleractinia, which includes calcareous substrate, is illegal to export out of the country and prosecutable in the U.S. under the Lacey Act. Lest we also forget that even coral leaving from one prefecture to another in Japan has its own set of regulations and laws. Just saying…
Often times people claim that these corals are peeled off the rock for this very reason; because with the right export documents, soft corals can technically be exported from Japan. This may be true, but the numbers do not add up. (Nnumerous professional aquarists and stores in Japan state that the few corals that are exported for the commercial trade are done so illegally via a neighboring country. Per comm T. Otake)."

 

[BlueWaterTropicals]

Well I guess until that happens this will just never be a closed case then.

We're not like other places, we mark up by percentages unless its something SUPER nice or super rare. Nobody wants the public knowing what these "fancy named" corals actually cost.

We bought the Japanese Zoa's from a wholesaler in HK, which is like 650 miles from Japan, for a geography reference, its 660miles from Los Angeles CA to Albuquerque NM....

 

[Speg]

We're not like other places, we mark up by percentages unless its something SUPER nice or super rare. Nobody wants the public knowing what these "fancy named" corals actually cost.

We bought the Japanese Zoa's from a wholesaler in HK, which is like 650 miles from Japan, for a geography reference, its 660miles from Los Angeles CA to Albuquerque NM....

(Nnumerous professional aquarists and stores in Japan state that the few corals that are exported for the commercial trade are done so illegally via a neighboring country.