Yes. The presence of copper diminishes prazi's overall effectiveness. But IME; it was still enough to get the job done.
Something is VERY wrong with my fish
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Yes. The presence of copper diminishes prazi's overall effectiveness. But IME; it was still enough to get the job done.
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Breakthecycle2
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Update: Everyone in QT is eating and out. No visible signs of anything. I did not dose Prazipro in QT. I did dose prazipro in the main tank. I guess the fun begins now.I am going to take all the rock out. One LFS I frequent gave me a bunch of Styrofoam coolers to put the rock in. No visible signs of anything in the DT.
melypr1985
totally addicted
Sounds like good progress! Yay!
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Breakthecycle2
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Well, I was wrong. One of my wrasses had one spots on his front fins. I took apart the whole tank and got the remaining 4 out. I did a 50% water change in the QT. My question is, should I dose the prozi as well in the QT? I don't want to stress them out anymore, but if you don't think it would, I will dose it. Also, I see everyone dosing copper to .50 levels. Mine is at .15 still. In fact it was even lower and the fish starting eating. My scopas wouldn't touch food until today when I realized I had done a large water change yesterday and didn't redose cupramine. Thoughts? What should I do?
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
Yes. Copper first (at therapeutic levels ideal) and make sure everyone eating generally before prazi.
Also keep in mind what you describe describes the strain of velvet I had to a T. No classic velvet symptoms for 6 months fish just dropping dead. Wrasse did OK. Until one day a chevron tang developed classic symptoms.
Copper took care of it. Many many strains of velvet that show or don't show different symptoms.
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4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
.15 will do nothing. The parasite can be present. It may curb how fast it reproduces at BEST
I've never had feeding issues with copper. Not even with the most fragile fish. ammonia is a different story. Same with stress.
Prazi can curb appetite but if eating prior, 90% of the time they'll continue to eat. Perhaps less but they'll eat.
Likely if your tang just started eating it's because he's just began to heal a hair and feels better. By and large I would say they're unrelated.
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Breakthecycle2
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A few questions. I'm thinking you are right. I keep going back and forth and then the guy I spoke to yesterday. I just don't know. A few questions. How quickly or how to I does the copper to bring it up? It's a 40 beeeder. Also, I already dosed the main tank with prazi, but being as it's empty, can I throw the chemipure back in and run the uv now?
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
don't run uv with meds present. I would leave prazi in because it will kill any lingering parasites that may or may not die without hosts: the rest will die during the 72 day fallow period most likely.
Just add copper slowly and use the mentioned copper test kits so you know levels. You should be able to increase by .15 without issue. Wait a couple days then do again by another .15-.2
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4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
Keep in mind too that strain of velvet I described began in the past 4-8 months so I doubt I am the only one that acquired it. It's still lurking
I'm almost certain it came from petco fish particularly angels (petco online)
I'm almost certain it came from petco fish particularly angels (petco online)
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Breakthecycle2
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Even if there is not fish in the tank?
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Breakthecycle2
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Also, I can just add another .15 of cupramine?
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Breakthecycle2
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I appreciate everyone's patience. I was also wondering if someone could post a side by side comparison between Ich/velvet?
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
Yes it isn't going to hurt anything you have nothing to lose just unncesserary work to remove it. It may help kill off flukes or other worms.
Yes. Done it many times. Do it again in a couple of days. I usually increase it three to four times to the dose I want. For me it's .6-.7.
This is nearly impossible to do because both parasites (particularly velvet) are inconsistent with visual symptoms.
Copper treats both anyway so I wouldn't be as fixated on diagnosis, IMO. What you describe sounds like velvet. I would say I am 75% sure. May well have ich also, in fact if you have velvet more often than not ich will be present too because it's far more common and will get worse while velvet eats them alive faster.
Non proper qt methods lead to ich literally 75-99% of the time depending on who you ask. Whether they show symptoms or not it is there. So again, you probably have both.
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Breakthecycle2
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What I don't understand is how quickly they would die and have no "outside" visible symptoms.
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
They're in the gills, where it's easiest for them to attack.
I didn't understand it either other than that I just treated now all is well
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Breakthecycle2
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Doesn't UV help with the free swimmers?
Fish have a mucus membrane protecting their skin from parasites and other nasties. The thickness of this "mucous coat" varies according to genus, but even thick coat species (ex. mandarins) have one vulnerability - the gills. There is no protection from parasites inside the gills, thus offering the path of least resistance. So external parasites (exs. ich, velvet) will often attack the gills first. When this happens, fluid builds up inside a fish's gills and if there are too many parasites/too much fluid the fish dies due to asphyxiation. When you start seeing evidence of external parasites on the skin (i.e. the white dots) that means a fish is pretty heavily infested and his immune system has been compromised.
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
Sorry but you are beating a dead horse. It may slow their reproduction but it will not fix your problem as humblefish stated. If they were the et all end all then every single aquarium on planet earth would employ them.
Truth is in most marine environments people don't have the proper circulation, flow to the UV, speed of flow, and wattage to accurately slow down reproduction anyway. They are ineffective at best.
Anecdotal evidence that they work is actually fish building up resistances that mirror immunity as Paul mentions, IMO and IME. With velvet this will not be done by and large.
For instance, my tank that had velvet coincidentally was the ONLY tank I have deploying a UV sterilizer. Did absolutely nothing.
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Breakthecycle2
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Mine has 57w and less then 200 gph going through it. What size is needed for our tanks as a preventive?
It eradicates some, but unlikely ever all, of the free swimmers. If even just one free swimmer survives, the parasite's life cycle continues and it survives in your tank. Might be enough to slow down ich... but due to velvet's sheer overwhelming numbers, no UV is gonna save you.
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