Why folks don’t like adding nutrients

[sixty_reefer]

Pretzels?

Beer and peanuts on a dosing unit during the full moon

 

[Borat]

I dose sodium nitrate - as I have 0 nitrates otherwise.. I see nothing bad with dosing nitrates via chemicals - just another way of providing nutrients.

With low phosphates it's far easier to supplement by just extra feeding - but then not many tanks suffer from low phosphates anyway...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

there is always a couple more nutrients being added with them ex. Potassium nitrate that adds potassium, nitrate and nitrogen, this is we’re some of the organic Vs inorganic comments started from potassium nitrate adds organic and inorganic nutrients not just inorganic as many would believe.

I’m confused. Nothing is organic in potassium nitrate.

 

[WVNed]

I’m confused. Nothing is organic in potassium nitrate.

I saw organic water at the grocery

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/07/13/137796144/organic-water-a-new-marketing-wave

When words don't mean anything anymore.

 

[Mark Novack]

Was this nutrient goal change a result of looking to control nuisance algae, bacteria and diatom blooms?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I saw organic water at the grocery

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/07/13/137796144/organic-water-a-new-marketing-wave

When words don't mean anything anymore.

It is a sad fact the the word organic was co-opted by marketing people to have an entirely different meaning than the original, just because it sounded friendly to consumers, and that secondary definition is now more widely used than the original chemical term.

 

[WVNed]

It is a sad fact the the word organic was co-opted by marketing people to have an entirely different meaning than the original, just because it sounded friendly to consumers, and that secondary definition is now more widely used than the original chemical term.

Have you heard of probiotics?
Now we have prebiotics.
snake oil is a viable product again.
Coming soon. Ned's Miracle Tonic. The vats of leaves are boiling out back now.
It organic, sustainable and prebiotic. If you let it sit long enough it will be probiotic.

 

[Borat]

I think potassium nitrate does not add a lot of potassium when dosed to target nitrates (potassium consumption is far higher than that of nitrates).. So the potassium part is completely irrelevant. Potassium should be dosed separately, e.g. by adding potassium chloride..

 

[Borat]

..and you know which country produces the best potassium in the world!

 

[MnFish1]

I only know so much on the subject and it’s hard work to try and figure out what uses what in a tank. In this discussion macro nutrients tend to be the centre point and deviate to micro nutrients. The opening statement is simple and as you may already pointed out our systems are made of a big mix of nutrients although today many are still against using target macro nutrients to resolve issues in our systems with a common situation being phosphates or nitrates. Many folks are still against this and I just wondered why? I believe I had my answers and it most felt on bad experiences as nitrates and phosphates don’t come in a clean form, there is always a couple more nutrients being added with them ex. Potassium nitrate that adds potassium, nitrate and nitrogen, this is we’re some of the organic Vs inorganic comments started from potassium nitrate adds organic and inorganic nutrients not just inorganic as many would believe.

Yes - and I know my post seemed somewhat harsh - but - this is just my opinion - it seems like you have an agenda about CNP ratios and have rightly posted interesting discussions about the topic. But - I have to say - I still am not totally sure what you view actually is on the topic. I do not think many are 'against using target nutrients'. But - for those who ARE - they may not know about the subject, they may have tried and seen no difference, or they may merely be able to keep their levels where they are just by managing them in other ways.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I’m confused. Nothing is organic in potassium nitrate.

there is more literature online that Support the calculator results

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think potassium nitrate does not add a lot of potassium when dosed to target nitrates (potassium consumption is far higher than that of nitrates).. So the potassium part is completely irrelevant. Potassium should be dosed separately, e.g. by adding potassium chloride..

I disagree. Potassium never depleted in my tank with no additions at all, and if I dosed 3 ppm nitrate via potassium nitrate, potassium would rise from 400 to 693 ppm in a year (assuming no water changes).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

there is more literature online that Support the calculator results

Not sure what your point is. It doesn’t relate at all to my post that you quoted, and the fact that there is a calculator for freshwater dosing does not mean it is a good idea for reef tank.

FWIW, folks can use such a calculator with very little error even when using sodium nitrate.

 

[Borat]

I disagree. Potassium never depleted in my tank with no additions at all, and if I dosed 3 ppm nitrate via potassium nitrate, potassium would rise from 400 to 693 ppm in a year (assuming no water changes).

I will accept your point here - but just wanted to highlight the scope for potassium consumption in my case:
I have to add 15 mg of potassium chloride each month to maintain potassium level (15ppm a month usage).. I think potassium consumption is much larger if you have a large refugium (which I always had).

 

[dieselkeeper]

I dose 100 ml a day to keep nitrates at 10 ppm on a 220 gal system. I need to find a place for a 5 gallon bucket for the dosing container.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I will accept your point here - but just wanted to highlight the scope for potassium consumption in my case:
I have to add 15 mg of potassium chloride each month to maintain potassium level (15ppm a month usage).. I think potassium consumption is much larger if you have a large refugium (which I always had).

IMO, there’s no inherent reason potassium should decline unless:

1. you dose N and/P, driving creation of new tissue that contains potassium.

or

2. The new tissue created in the tank contains more potassium per unit of N and P than do the foods (tissues) feed to the tank.

Thus, the potassium content of foods is important in this discussion, and washing of frozen foods may release potassium that is held inside cells that broke open in freezing. Obviously the way dry foods are prepared may also impact retention of potassium.

 

[Borat]

IMO, there’s no inherent reason potassium should decline unless:

1. you dose N and/P, driving creation of new tissue that contains potassium.

or

2. The new tissue created in the tank contains more potassium per unit of N and P than do the foods (tissues) feed to the tank.

Thus, the potassium content of foods is important in this discussion, and washing of frozen foods may release potassium that is held inside cells that broke open in freezing. Obviously the way dry foods are prepared may also impact retention of potassium.

I don't know what may consume potassium in my tank other than refugium.. I haven't seen significant deteriment to potassium deficiencies but I had multiple instances where I overlooked/forgot about potassium and it dropped to 250-270ppm level over the course of a few months (vs 400ppm target level).. As there are no obvious signs to potassium deficiency, I only learn about it when I do a test for potassium.

As it's been happening quite a few times now - it cannot be a random measurement mistake. Never had elevated potassium either. And yes - I dose N, P comes naturally through food..

 

[sixty_reefer]

Not sure what your point is. It doesn’t relate at all to my post that you quoted, and the fact that there is a calculator for freshwater dosing does not mean it is a good idea for reef tank.

FWIW, folks can use such a calculator with very little error even when using sodium nitrate.

Just to illustrate the nitrogen content in KNO3 as you mentioned before that it doesn’t contain organic nutrient

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just to illustrate the nitrogen content in KNO3 as you mentioned before that it doesn’t contain organic nutrient

OK, got it.

 

[MnFish1]

there is more literature online that Support the calculator results

His point was was that potassium nitrate is not 'organic'. It's 'in-organic' - I don't understand the calculator's role. K is inorganic. Nitrate is inorganic.